David Swanson, mubvunzurudzo, September 3, 2018, Mwedzi.
David Swanson munyori, mushandi, mutori wenhau, uye redhiyo. Ndiye mutungamiriri we WorldBeyondWar.org uye mushandirapamwe wemushandirapamwe we RootsAction.org. A akanyora munyori, mabhuku ake anosanganisira Hondo Ndicho Nhema, Apo Hondo Yenyika Yakabuda, Hondo Hakuchinazve: Nyaya Yokubvisa, Hondo Haisati Ichangosvika, A Global Global System: An Alternative Kuhondo, uye yake yakapfuura, Kuporesa Kunze Kwekunyora: Chii chakashata nemafungiro atinoita nezveUnited States? Chii chatingaita pamusoro payo? Zvose zviripo pawebsite yake. Anogadzirira pa DavidSwanson.org uye WarIchirime.org. Anogadzirira Talk Nation Radio uye a Nguva yechitatu yeNobel Runyararo Runyararo. Mwedzi wapera chete, kuVeterans For Peace Convention muSt. Paul, Minnesota, akagamuchira iyo US Peace Memorial Foundation's 2018 Peace Prize. Michael Knox, sachigaro weU.S. Peace Memorial Foundation, akati: "Tine tsika yehondo muUnited States vaAmerica vanopesana nehondo vanowanzonyorwa mazita evatengesi, vasina unyanzvi, vasina-maAmerica, uye vanopesana nehondo. Sezvaunoziva, kushanda kuti uve norugare iwe unofanirwa kuva noushingi uye kuita zvibayiro zvakakura zvako. . . .
"Ndinofara kwazvo kuzivisa kuti mukana wedu weKugovera Rugare we2018 unopiwa kune vakakudzwa David Swanson - nekuda kwehutungamiri hwake hwehondo hunopesana, zvinyorwa, mazano, uye masangano anobatsira kuvaka tsika yorugare."
Pawebsite yake, Swanson anozvitsanangura semwana weUnited Church of Christ muparidzi uye nhengo yehupenyu iyo yakasiyira mhuri yakanyatsotamira muWisconsin neDelaware kuti iende kure nemusha. Vakatsigira Kodzero dzeVanhu nehupfumi uye vakasarudza Jesse Jackson. Swanson anoti akadzidza kubva pamuenzaniso wavo: iva noushingi asi ane rupo; edza kuita nyika ive nzvimbo yakanaka; kuvhara uye kutanga kupfuura sezvinodikanwa-mumuviri kana maonero; edza kuita pfungwa dzezvinhu zvinonyanya kukosha; ramba uchifara, uye uise rudo rwevana vako mberi kwezvimwe zvinhu.
Paakabvunzwa kuti chii chakaita kuti ave mumiririri wezvematongerwo enyika, anobvuma kuti maitiro ake ekutanga-mumatauriro ndeokuti, "Sei iwe usati iwe?" Anonyadziswa nezvinodiwa kutsanangura kushanda kuti apedze chinhu chakaipisisa munyika, apo mamiriyoni evanhu kwete kushanda kuti ipedze iyo inoda kupa pasina tsanangudzo.
Anoti, "Ndaiva nehutano hwemudhorobha reUnited States, hwakanaka zvikuru seavo shamwari dzangu nevavakidzani, uye hapana mumwe wavo akapedzisira ari sevanhu vanoita rugare - ini chete. Ndakatora zvinhu zvavanoudza mwana wese nezvekuedza kuita kuti nyika ive nzvimbo yakanakisisa. Ndakawana mitemo yeCarnegie Endowment yeRugare isingadzivisiki, kunyange zvazvo ndisina kumbobvira ndanzwa nezvechirongwa ichocho, chirongwa icho chisingamboiti chiito pamutemo wayo. Kunyange zvakadaro, yakagadzirirwa kupedza hondo, uye zvakare kuziva yechipiri-chakaipa pane zvose munyika uye kushanda kubvisa icho. Ndeipi imwe nzira iyo inofungidzika?
"Asi vanhu vakawanda vanobvumirana neni pane izvozvi vatsigiri vezvakatipoteredza. Uye vazhinji vavo havatori hanya nehondo uye zvemhirizhonga seicho chikonzero chikuru chekuparadzwa kwezvakatipoteredza. Nei zvakadaro? Ndisina sei kuva mhirizhonga wezvakatipoteredza? Ko sangano rezvakatipoteredza rakakura sei kusvika kune simba rayo razvino razvitsaurirwa kugumisa zvose asi njodzi yakaipa zvikuru yemhuka? "
Swanson akati akanga asina chimwe chiitiko chakaita kuti nzira yake sevekurudzira kurambidza rugare. Nenzira yakawanda, akaenda kunopesana nehondo yekuti zviitiko zvezvino zvakaitwa zvakakosha, asi zvakanga zvisati zvaenda kusvikira achishandira Dennis Kucinich purogiramu yemutungamiri kuti aive ne "kutanga basa rorugare. Takataura pamusoro pehugare, hondo, rugare, kutengeserana, runyararo, hutano hwakanaka, hondo, nerugare. "Apo basa iroro rakapera, Swanson akabata zvigaro zvekukurukurirana neA AFL-CIO uye gare gare Democrats.com, kwaakawana kuti Democratic Party yaiva chete "Kufungidzira kufarira" pakugumisa hondo.
Sezvaanotaura pamusoro www.davidswanson.org, "Muna 2006, mapurisa ekubuda akati veDemocrates vakakunda zvikuru muCongress nemvumo yekugumisa hondo muIraq. Uya January, Rahm Emanuel akaudza Washington Post iyo inogona kuchengetedza hondo kuenda kuitira kuti itange 'kurwisa' zvakare zvakare mu 2008. Ne2007, Democrats vakange varasikirwa nehuwandu hwekufarira kwavo murugare ndokuenderera mberi kune izvo zvakaonekwa kwandiri semararamiro ekusarudza maDemocrates akawanda semagumo pachake. "
Munguva iyi, pfungwa yaSlanson pachake "yakanga yava kupedzana hondo imwe neimwe uye pfungwa yekutongotanga imwe imwe." Anotaura asingatyi; anotsigira asinganeti; anonyora asinganeti, achiri kurarama nemudzimai wake nevana muCollottesville, VA (hongu, kuti Charlottesville). - Leslee Goodmanhttps://plus.google.com/
Mwedzi: Vanhu veAmerica vanoita sevari kugamuchira hondo semararamiro ehupenyu, iyo inonzi iyo mutengo we democracy. Iwe wapedza chikamu chikuru chehupenyu hwako debunking nhema dzinofanirwa hondo. Iwe ungatiitira izvi zvishoma apa, tapota?
Swanson: Handifungi kuti tinofanira kukwanisa kutaura nezve "vose veAmerica." Kune vazhinji vagari veAmericas-kuCanada, Mexico, Central uye South America, uye kunyange United States-avo vasingatombobvumi kuti hazvigoneki zvehondo. Asi muUnited States isu tinorarama mune tsika dzakasimba, uye vanhu vazhinji vakagamuchira uye vakashandisa zvinyorwa zvinoshandiswa kutsigira hondo. Somugumisiro, pfungwa yokuti tinogona kupedza hondo uye tichiri kurarama inenge isingambofungidziri kune vanhu vazhinji vari munyika ino. Saka tinofanira kuongorora maonero evanhu mumatanho. Kana, semuenzaniso, hondo yakasikwa nechinhu chinonzi "vanhu," ngatitarisei kweminiti kune imwe 96% yevanhu vari panyika iyo inomiririrwa nehurumende dzinoisa mari zvishoma pasi peUnited States muhondo. Kana isu tisina kugadzirira kupedza hondo, tingave takagadzirira kufamba mune imwe yerimwe 96% yevanhu? Uye tingave tichiri kuzvifunga isu mukati memiganhu yezvinzi kunzi munhu? Mumwe aifanira kufunga kuti hongu. Uyezve, iwe unogona kutsvaga vanhu muUnited States uye, zvichienderana nekuti sarudzo yacho inoitwa sei, ona kuti vazhinji vane simba wakaramba kufanana kuita izvo chete. Vaizofara kufambisa mari kubva kunze kwehondo kuenda kune zvinhu zvinokosha, semari uye nzvimbo uye zvimwe zvakadaro.
Dai United States yaiva chaiyeiye demokarasi, panzvimbo yenyika iyo inoparadza vanhu muzita rehurumende, inotanga kuenderera mberi kubva kune mamwe mauto emhirizhonga, mari yakawanda yemari, zvigaro zvepamusoro, nezvimwe zvinopisidzira, uye kune chinangwa cherugare-nokuti ndizvo chaizvo izvo vanhu want. Apo yakaita izvozvi, taizoona zvombo zvemashure zvakasiyana-siyana pasi rose. Tichaona China uye dzimwe nyika dzichidzokorora, dzichienda kure nemari yakawanda yekuita zvemhirizhonga uye kumari yekutsvaga muzviito zvakanyanya zvinobudirira, zvakadai sedzidzo, tsvakurudzo, hutano hwezvehutano, kugadziriswa kwezvakatipoteredza, nekuenderera mberi. Kunyange zvazvo zvinoshamisa kuti pane kuwedzera kukurudzira kuedza kubvisa kunyange zvigadziri zvombo zvenyukireya, hatisi kuzowana nyika dzine zvombo zvenyukireya kuti dzibvise zvachose sezvo United States inopfuurira nehutsinye hune utsinye hwehondo .
Mwedzi: Sei iwe uchiratidza kuti United States haisi yekutonga kwenyika?
Swanson: Ndakatsvakurudza pfungwa iyi mubhuku rangu, Kuporesa Kunzwisisa. Kune mitsara inenge iine 400 inotsanangurwa mubhuku iroro, kusanganisira imwe yekudzidza naPippa Norris, nyanzvi yezvematongerwe enyika muHarvard neSydney Universities uye musheti wekutanga weElectoral Integrity Project, uyo tsvakurudzo inoratidza kuti sarudzo dzeUnited States dzakaipa zvikuru pakati pemademokrasi eWestern uye dzinotora 52nd , kubva munyika ye153 munyika yose mu 2016 Pfungwa dzeSarudzo Integrity index. Zvinonzwisiswa zveSarudzo Kudzidza kutendeseka kunongedzera zvinhu zvakadai sekuoma kwakavhota; kuti kuvimbika kwevhoti uye nzira yekuverenga ndeyechokwadi sei; kunyanya kushandisa mari mune kugadzirisa zviitiko; nezvimwewo.
Kune dzimwe nzira dzinogona kuitwa dzehurumende, hongu. Zvinosuruvarisa, United States haifaniri kufanana sezvatinofungidzira mune imwe yeiyo. IBritish-based Legatum Institute inotonga United States 18th yakazara mu "kubudirira" uye 28th mu "rusununguko rwomunhu oga." Cato Institute yeU.S. inotonga United States 24th mu "rusununguko rwomunhu" uye 11th mu "rusununguko rwezvemari." Canada -kubva pasi World Index Index inotarisana neUnited States 27th mune imwe boka rakafanana re "urombo," "zvematongerwo enyika," uye "kusunungura" rusununguko. The CIA-inobhadharwa nePolity Data Series inopa US demokrasia chikwata cha 8 kunze kwe10, asi inopa dzimwe nyika dzeChNUMX mapeji akakwirira. Pakupedzisira, vatsvakurudzi vePrinceton uye Northwestern University anogumisa kuti United States yakanyatsorondedzerwa sehurumende, "umo vapfumi vakapfuma zvikuru vanosarudza mutemo wehurumende," kupfuura hurumende. Hapana mubvunzo kuti vazhinji vagari vanobvumirana.
Asi kudzokera kumubvunzo wako wepakutanga, on www.worldbeyondwar.org, iwe uchawana chikamu chinotsanangura uye chichinyorwa zvinyorwa zvinoshandiswa kururamisa hondo. "Izvo zvakaita munhu" ndeimwe yavo. "Hondo ndeyezvisikwa," chero zvingareva, ndeye. Zvisinei, hapana kana imwe nyaya yevanhu vanotambura nehondo yekudzivirira. Hondo haisi chimwe chinhu chaunoda, sekudya, kana mvura, kana rudo. Haisi chikonzero chekufara kwevanhu. Pane kudaro, kuita kuti vanhu vatore chikamu muhondo kunoda kudzidziswa kwakasimba uye kugadzirisa, izvo zvinowanzoteverwa nekuzvidemba kwekunamata nekutevera. Ichi ndicho chikonzero chizhinji chekufa kubva kune vatori vechikamu muhondo dzekuAmerica dzekupedzisira-iyo inonzi iyo hondo yepasi rose yehugandanga-vakazviuraya. Vatori vechikamu havakwanisi kugutsikana nezvezvikonzero zvekutora chikamu kune avo vakaurayiwa, ivo ivo vanofanira kuenderera mberi vachitsvaga kuburikidza nePTSD.
Panewo ngano yokuti hondo haigoneki uye, sezvo isingagoni kudziviswa, tinofanira kuedza kukunda. Icho basa rakaoma, asi mumwe munhu anofanira kuzviita. Asi, kana iwe uchitarisa zvakanyanya pane imwe hondo ipi zvayo, hapana chinhu chisingadzivisiki pamusoro pazvo. Zvinotora matanho akaitwa nevashuturi vavariro yekugadzira hondo yezvematongerwe enyika, uye kubatsiri, nekugadzirisa, uye kusuruvara, uye zvikonzero zvisina musoro zvekugadzira hondo. Icho chinhu chinoda kuita; haisi kungowa kubva kudenga. Kune avo vaverengi vasingatsvaki kuedza chimwe chinhu kunze kwekuti zvaitwa kare, tapota zivai kuti vanhu vevanhu vane yakavapo kwemazana emakore, munguva dzichangopfuura uye munguva yakapfuura yapfuura, pasina hondo. Mazhinji maanthropologists iye zvino vanopokana kuti nzanga dzekuvhima-dzinounganidza hadzina chinhu chaungadeidze kuti hondo, uye yavo nguva inoverengera huwandu hwakawanda hwehupenyu hwevanhu. Izvo zvaingova nekugadziriswa kwezvakamira, nzanga dzekurima dzine zvakawandisa kugadzirwa uye kusimudzira kwemadhorobha-ndiko kuti, chete mumakore akapfuura 10,000-12,000 makore - pawakave nechose chaungadeidze kuti hondo. Ehezve, iyo yainzi hondo kunyangwe mazana maviri emakore apfuura pakanga pasina kana chinhu chakafanana neicho chatinoti hondo nhasi, seChipiri Amendment, sekufungidzirwa neVatangi veMadzibaba, iri kuchema kure kubva kuzvombo zvombo zvatave kusangana nazvo nhasi. Hondo, sezvazviri nezvombo uye tekinoroji inobatanidzwa nhasi, inyowani nyowani. Kubva Hondo Yenyika II chete iyo ruzhinji rwevanhu vakafa kubva muhondo vanga vari vanhuwo zvavo, kwete varwi. Hondo dzaiitika munhandare dzehondo - kwete mumaguta, mataundi, nemisha. Asi, vanhu vachiri kufunga nezvehondo mune echinyakare mazwi. Ivo vanofunga nezvezvikwata zvemauto zvine dzakasiyana-yunifomu yunifomu munhandare dzehondo kana nzvimbo dzehondo, uyezve ivo vanoda kuti timu yakapfeka vara ravo kuti ikunde. Nekuti zvikwata izvi hazvisi kurwa chero padhuze neUnited States, vazhinji vekuAmerican havazive kuti vazhinji varume, vakadzi, nevana vasiri varwi vanourawa, kwete mauto. Zvakare, kana iwe ukaongorora nzanga dzeAmerica pamberi pekusvika kwaColumbus, uye nzanga mumativi eAustralia nemamwe makondinendi, uye kunyangwe nyika ikozvino mumakumi emakore apfuura nemazana emakore, vazhinji vakasarudza kuita vasina hondo. Japan ine mukurumbira yakavhara nyika uye ikabudirira pasina hondo yakakosha kwemazana emakore kusvika "yavhurwa" zvakare, sezvavanotaura, nemaAmericans, avo vakaramba vachidzidzisa maJapan muhondo uye tinoziva kuti zvakashanda sei.
Dzimwe manyepo dzinosanganisira pfungwa yokuti hondo inodikanwa kuzvidzivirira isu. Tingave tichizvizarurira kune ngozi, tichiratidzira zvishongo zvedu pamberi peboka revanhuvha, tichimirira suo redu rakazaruka kune vanouraya uye vapambi, dai tisina hondo-nehondo yekugadzirira-kuzvidzivirira isu. Ichi ndechimwe chezvinyorwa izvi zvakagara zvakanyatsogadzikana mupfungwa dzevanhu; imwe vanoiwana inenge isingakwanisi kufunga nenzira yavo. Ini zvechokwadi handigone kuwana vanhu vakawanda kuti vaite kudaro munguva yehurukuro imwe pfupi. Ndakanga ndine ruzivo nemabhuku angu. (Chinhu chinonyanya kugutsa semunyori ndechekuti vanhu vanyorera kwandiri uye vanoti mabhuku angu akachinja zvachose nyika yavo.) Ndinofunga kuti inotora bhuku, asi tichitarisira mubvunzurudzo tinogona kutanga vanhu kubvunza zvishomanana kune inotaura apo zvichida vacharamba vachienda uye verenga mamwe mabhuku, kana tarisa mamwe mavhidhiyo.
Mwedzi: Vazhinji vekuAmerica havana ruzivo rwokuti hondo yakafanana neUnited States yakave yakaenzana nedzimwe nyika-kunyange avo vatinofunga kutyisidzira, kana kupikisana, seChina, Russia, Iran, Pakistan, uye North Korea. Zvakare, ndinoziva kuti wakanyora mabhuku ose panyaya iyi, asi ndapota taurirai zvimwe zvakatipa kuti tipe maonero akajeka echokwadi.
Swanson: Nyika zhinji pasi pano hazvipedzi chero chinhu chakafanana neUnited States maererano nehondo uye kugadzirira hondo. Chikamu chebhizimisi rehondo yeUnited States inoshandisa zvombo kune dzimwe nyika. Vatatu-vana vekutonga kwenyika, nehurumende yeUnited States pachake yokudzvinyirira, vari kutenga zvombo zveU.S. Hazvishamisi kuva nehondo ikozvino pasina zvombo zveU.S. kuine rumwe rutivi, uye kazhinji kamuviri. Bhizinesi rehondo rinotengeswa senyika, sekuda nyika, asi yakanga isiri yeGeneral Motors ne Ford, uye Standard Oil, uye IBM, uye mamwe makambani eUnited States achiita bhizinesi muNazi Germany munguva yehondo uye mberi, vaNazi vangadai vasina kuita zvavakaita. Dai zvisiri zvehurumende yeUnited States mune zviito zvekutonga kwemutemo-kudzivisa kuputira mabhizimusi eUnited States muGermany, kunyange kuvabhadhara kuti vakuvadze pashure-vaNazi vaisambokwanisa kuita zvavakaita. Saka zvakawanda zvinotungamirira hondo inobatsira, kwete chero chiri mumashoko anoparadzirwa anotengesa hondo kuvanhu. Uye apo hurumende yeUnited States pachayo inopedza zvakanyanya sekunge nyika yose yakaiswa pamwechete-kusanganisira vashandi varo vese, iyo pamwe chete inowedzera kusvika kumatatu matatu ekushandisa mari kwemauto-chigumisiro hachisi kunyatsodzivirirwa, asi kuisa pangozi.
Ndinokwanisa kukupa runyora rurefu rwemauto eUnited States neve "vadzidzisi vezvemagariro" vanotaura chinhu chaizvo-kuti hondo, kana hondo dzakasiyana, kana maitiro chaiwo akafanana ne drone hondo-hazvina kubudirira, zviri kuwedzera vavengi kune vanobvisa. Uyezve, izvo zvinonzi hondo pamusoro pehugandanga zvakafanotaura kuwedzera hugandanga, kwete kuderedza. Vazhinji vedu takaenda kunofanotaura izvi zvinoguma gore negore, pasina. Tora kuzvidzora, semuenzaniso. Makumi makumi mapfumbamwe nemashanu kubva muzana evanhu vanozviuraya vanotsvaga vachida kuedza kuita kuti nyika irege kurega kana kuputira imwe nyika. Hapana imwe yenyaya yakanyorwa yehugandanga kurwiswa nekutsamwa kwekupa zvokudya, kana mvura, kana mishonga, kana zvikoro, kana masimba akachena kana zvisiri-zvigaro-zvakabatanidzwa rubatsiro rwekusimudzira. Hazviitike. Zvechokwadi, tinogona kuita nyika yehutano hwemari yechitsinhanho chiduku chezvinhu zvatinoshandisa kuita kuti tisanyanya kuchengeteka kuburikidza nenzira dzetsika dzekurwisa mhirizhonga. Iyi ndiyo chaiyo nhamba imwechete iyo hondo inouraya; kwete nechisimba; asi nemikana inorasikirwa yezvinhu zvose zvataigona kuita nemari iyo panzvimbo.
Semuenzaniso, kungoita 3% yemadhora ekuUnited States, kana nezve1.5% yemari yose yekushandiswa kwehondo, inogona kupedza nzara panyika. Zvishoma zvishoma 1% zvinogona kugumisa kusasha kwemvura yakachena yekunwa. Dai taizoedza kuedza zvakanyanya kugadzirisa kuparadzwa kwemamiriro okunze, nzvimbo chete yekuwana mari yakakodzera inobva kuuto rehondo, uye inongotora chikamu chiduku chezvinhu zvatinoshandisa pauto rehondo kuti tive nehondo yakaoma. Pane kudaro, kuenderera mberi kwatiripo, mauto ndeyoyo iyo nhamba-imwe muparadzi wemamiriro ekunze uye zvimwe zvakasiyana-siyana zvezvakatipoteredza. Ichi ndicho chikonzero chikuru chokuderedza hutachiona ikoko. Kune dzimwe dzakawanda dzakawanda dzenhema dzandinogona kukurukura, asi nokuda kwenguva, regai nditaure imwechete zvakare-uye iyo inofunga kuti hondo inogona kuva yakarurama. MuUnited States, vanhu vakawanda vanofungisisa nezveWWII sehondo yakarurama. Ndiyo nzira iyo inonyatsoratidzwa mumakirasi evanhu veUnited States, kuvaraidzwa kweUnited States, uye nhoroondo dzeAmerica dzenhoroondo mune ino nhau yekupa nhau. Maonero iwayo anotonga tsika dzeUnited States.
Mwedzi: "Hondo Yakanaka," hongu.
Swanson: Rudyi. "Hondo Yakanaka" ndiro zita raiwana apo hondo muVietnam yakakura kuva "Hondo Yakaipa." (Nokuti kana iwe uine Hondo Yakaipa, unofanira kuva neHondo Yakanaka, zvisinei iwe uri kutyisidzira Pfungwa yakafanana yehondo, uye hazvisi izvo zvinotenderwa.) Nenzira yakadaro yekuita, apo Iraq yakava imwe "Hondo Yakaipa," vanhu vakatanga kutora Afghanistan kufanana ne "Hondo Yakanaka," kusvika apo vanhu vanofunga kuti chero chakaipa chakaitika muIraq haina kuitika muAfghanistan. Vanhu vachanditondedzerawo kuti United Nations yakabvumira hondo yeA Afghanistan Afghanistan 17 makore apfuura, izvo zvisati zvamboitika. Vanofunga kuti inofanirwa kuva nekuti United Nations inofara haana kugamuchira hondo muIraq. Saizvozvowo, vanhu vanoziva kuti zvinhu zvinotyisa zvakaitwa muVietnam; vanhu vemazuva ose vaitambudzwa, vakaputirwa, uye vakaurawa; asi iyo yaiva Hondo Yakaipa; izvo zvinhu hazvifaniri kuitika muWWII. Ichokwadi, ivo vakaita, uye pamwero mukuru. Saka ndakaenda kure-kureba-mabhuku-kutsvaga kudai kuti WWII yaiva hondo yakarurama. Ndinoona izvi zvichidikanwa nokuti vamwe vanhu havazomboregi kutenda mune hondo chero bedzi pane imwechete yehondo yaive yakarurama. Izvi zvinondirova sevasingafungi, nokuti hatiti kudzokera shure kwemakore 75 kuti tiwane chiitiko chazvino chakanaka chechimwe chinhu; chete yepurogiramu yedu huru yevanhu. Tingave tisina kufambira mberi kubvira ipapo? Tiri kurarama munyika yakasiyana iko zvino. Isu tine mitemo inorambidza hondo yekutonga kwenharaunda; tine zvombo zvenyukireya, izvo zvinoshandura yose kuverenga kwehondo; isu tine (kukanganisa) masangano emarudzi ose ekugadzirisa kusawirirana uye kusimbisa kusaguma-moto; uye isu tine ruzivo rwakanyanya kwazvo, uye tinosangana navo, kwete kusagadzikana kushorwa. Tinoziva kuti kusava nechisimba kunopfuura kaviri zvichida semhirizhonga kubudirira, uye kubudirira kwayo kunenge kwakatenderwa kuva kwenguva yakareba kwenguva refu kune iyo inowanikwa kuburikidza nechisimba mukupikisa udzvinyiriri nekudzvinyirirwa, kunyange kune dzimwe nyika.
Icho chikonzero chekukakavhiringidza kweWWII ndechekuti vaNazi vaifanira kumira nokuti vakanga vachiuraya vaJudha-uye vazhinjiwo vanhu, zvakare. Zvisinei, maU.S. haana kumbobvira akonzera kubatanidzwa kwayo muhondo yechikonzero ichocho panguva iyoyo. Ikoko kwakanga kusina kumbova nepositi yaiti, "Joyina Hondo uye uchengetedze vaJudha." Kutaura chokwadi, sangano reUnited States rakasimuka, nechishuwo chakakurumbira, rakarambidza kukura kupi zvako mukubvuma vapoteri vechiJudha kupinda muUnited States uye nechisarudzo chekusarura, maitiro anorwa nevaSemitic. PaEvian Conference ye1938, apo vamiririri vemarudzi e32 vakasangana kuzokurukura "dambudziko revapoteri vevaJudha" -mamwe mashoko, nhamba huru yevanhu vari kutsvaka kutiza Hitler's pogroms-United States nedzimwe nyika kunze kweDominican Republic yakaramba pachena kugamuchira chero mamwe maJuda. Izvi zvakabatsira Hitler kuti apindure, "Tarisai ava vanyepedzeri. Vanoda kuti ndirege kureva zvisina kunaka vaJudha, asi havazovatore. Isu, kune rumwe rutivi, takagadzirira kuisa vose ava vanopara mhosva kune dzimwe nyika idzi, pane zvose zvandinotarisira, kunyange pazvikepe zvepamusoro. "Mukuratidza izvi, ini handisi pane imwe nzira yekufungidzira Hitler, kana kuti kuratidza kune chimwe chinhu chinokanganisika pamusoro pekuuraya mamiriyoni evanhu. Asi hapana chimwe chinokanganisika pamusoro pemafambiro ezvimwe nyika dzese dzenyika kuramba kubvuma vapoteri vechiJudha; pamusoro peGungwa Kurinda kudzingirira ngarava yevapoteri kubva kuMiami, Florida; pamusoro pehurumende yehurumende ichirambidza vhizimisi vese vese vemu Anne Anne.
Ichokwadi ndechekuti vashandi vehurumende vakapinda kuUnited States nehurumende dzeBritain muhondo yose uye vakakumbira kuti chimwe chinhu chiitwe kuti vabudise vaJudha kubva muGermany. Kunyange mushure mekunge vaBrithani vatiza zviuru zvamazana emapoka avo kubva kuGermany uye vakaratidza kuti vanogona kuita seichete kune vapoteri, vakati havagoni kunetseka; vaine hondo yekurwa. Nokudaro ruramisiro yakakosha yeHondo Yakanaka mumafungiro evanhu vakawanda-kunyange zvazvo vanyori vezvakaitika kare vane hutongi hwavo pachavo uye handingatongopindi mairi pano-ndakanga ndisina chokuita nehondo kusvikira mushure mokunge hondo yapfuura. Mukufungidzira kwevanhu, hondo yakanga yakarurama nokuti vaNazi vaiuraya vaJudha. Hondo pachayo yakauraya nguva 10 sevanhu vazhinji vakaurayiwa mumisasa, iyo, mumwe angafunga kuti yaizoita kuti vanhu vaone kana chirwere chacho chakanga chakaipa kudarika chirwere. Zvinosuruvarisa, rudzi rwemibvunzo iyo haruitiki kakawanda.
Mwedzi: Ungatipa here chirevo chekuwanda kwemari yehurumende nemidziyo iyo US inoshandisa muhondo yayo yehondo kune dzimwe nyika-kunyange iyo nyika iyo maAmerica inogara ichitaurirwa inotyisa?
Swanson: Gallup naPew vave vachiita sarudzo dzemarudzi akawanda mumakore achangopfuura vachibvunza vanhu nyika ipi inonyanya kukuvadza rugare panyika. Munyika dzakawanda, iyo yepamusoro-kuraja ndeyekuti, ikozvino, United States. Izvi zvingava nhau dzinotyisa kune vanhu vakawanda muUnited States, kunyange zvazvo zvataurwa mumapepanhau avo. MuUnited States, zvichienderana nevhiki ipi iyo, vaAmerica vachatumidza Iran kana North Korea sechinotyisa kukunda rugare. Muhurukuro yeGallup munaDisemba 2013, vaAmerica vakati Iran, kunyange zvazvo Iran isina kutanga hondo mumazana emakore. Iran inopedza zvishoma pane 1% yezvakaitwa neUnited States pamasoja ayo. Uyezve, muZ2015, Iran yakabvumirana nekuongorora zvakanyanya kwezvinhu zvenyukireya uye dzimwe nzvimbo kupfuura nyika ipi zvayo. IUnited States haisambofungi kubvumirana kune chero chinhu chakadaro. Kuongorora kwakaratidza zvakajeka kuti chibvumirano chakanga chisati chave chichidikanwa munzvimbo yekutanga, sekuona chero munhu wekucherechedza ainge atoziva. Asi, kusvikira nhasi, veAmerica vanogona kutumidza Iran kuti mhinduro kumubvunzo we "chinotyisa zvikuru," zvichienderana nekuti Russia kana North Korea kana imwe nyika yakange yakakurumbira mune ino ichangobva kuitwa nhau.
Saizvozvowo, Russia inopedza zvishoma kune 10% izvo United States inoshanda pahondo yayo uye zvave zvichinyanya kuderedza kuti zvikamu zvezvikamu mumakore achangopfuura. Zvisinei, Russia inofanana neUnited States, iyo inenge hafu yezvombo zvenyukireya munyika, saka Russia, pamwe neUnited States, inogona kuparadza upenyu hwePasi nyore nyore nechikamu chiduku chezvombo zvenyukireya. Asi pfungwa yokuti North Korea kana Iran kana Irak kana chero zviduku, varombo, nyika isingagadziriswi ndiyo ngozi huru kune runyararo rwepasi rose risina musoro uye inzvimbo inobatwa kwete kwete nevasingazivi, vadzidzisi vechevhizheni vasina kudzidza, asi zvinosuruvarisa, nevanodzidza vakawanda veUnited States avo vane maonero ose panyaya iyi. Ndiri kureva, ndinogona kukutsanangurira murwi wemabhuku akaiswa nevapurofesa vesunivhesiti muUnited States, imwe neimwe ichakutaurira kuti mungozi mukuru kune mvumo yemutemo uye rugare uye kururamisira pasi pano mune zvakaitika munguva pfupi yapfuura kwaiva kukurumidza kuRussia yeCrimea. Usambofunga nezvehondo muVietnam, kana hondo yeIraq, kana kuve kwebhomba ikozvino Yemen, kana imwe yehondo dzakawanda uye mamiriyoni avo ose evanhu vakafa nekukuvadzwa kweU.S. Asi pane izvi, vadzidzisi vanoti chirongwa ichi, umo vanhu veCrimea vakabata voti kudzokerazve kuRussia, uye izvo zvisingasanganisi nhamo imwe chete, ndiyo yakanga iri ngozi huru kune rugare munyika. Panguva imwecheteyo, ini ndisati ndanzwa mumwe mubatsiri weiyo nzvimbo inokurudzira kuva nevanhu veCrimea vachiita vheti itsva nehurongwa hutsva hwekuvhota, kana vakasiyana-siyana vanocherechedza nyika. Havana kuzvitsanangura nokuti sarudzo imwe neimwe inoratidza vanhu veCrimea vanofara nevhoti yavo. Saka, kana iri kuputsa chikamu cheSerbia, ndizvo zvakanaka. Kana iri kuparadzanisa Slovakia kubva kuCzechia, ndizvo zvakanaka. Ndiri kureva, pfungwa yokuti vanhu vane kodzero yekugadzirisa uye vanoona kuti nyika yavavari kuenda kuva chikamu chei ndiyo inoremekedzwa, zvichibva pane zvatinoda isu zvenyika.
Mwedzi: Ndinofunga kuti vazhinji veAmerica havana zvachose pfungwa yokuti mhirizhonga yedu nyika yakave sei. Zvakare, ndinoziva kuti wakanyora mabhuku akazara panyaya iyi, asi iwe ungafambisa mberi uye utidzidzisa? Mushure mekunge, ndine chokwadi kuti mubvunzo unotevera uchange uri "Hausi iyo iyo yatinofanira kutamba nayo, nokuti isu chete tiri vasimba guru? Sezvo mupurisa wenyika, kana tisingaiti isu tose tichaenda kugehena mune bhasiketi. "
Swanson: Rudyi. Ndiri kureva, kana United States isingaparadzi hurumende yeRibhiya uye inochinja nzvimbo yacho kuva hupenyu hupenyu, inowedzera chisimba uye mhirizhonga muNorth Africa yose, ndiani achapinda uye oita basa iro? Kana United States isingashanduki Yemen kuti ive yebhebheti yehugandanga, uye inoita hondo huru nemhando dzose dzezvombo, uye inobatana neSaudi Arabia mukugadzira dambudziko guru revanhu mumakore achangopfuura-riri kutaura chimwe chinhu-ndiani achazviita ?
Nenzira, tinoudzwa kuti drone hondo ndezveramangwana rehondo nekuti "hapana munhu" anorwadziwa-zvaanoreva kuti, "Hapana munhu waunoda kutarisira." Asi aya "nobodies" mamwe emhuri dzavo uye kunyika. Fungidzira kana doro rehurumende kunze kwenyika rauraya mumwe wevanhu vedu. Izvozvo zvingakonzera hasha uye shungu here?
Takataura kwekanguva kaduku pamusoro peimwe sarudzo yakaitwa. Mapurisa anoratidza kuti dzimwe nyika hazvikoshese mupurisa wenyika yose. "Purogiramu yepasi rose" inzvimbo yakagadzwa. Haisi kukumbirwa; hazvikosheswi. Iyo yakasiyanawo munhoroondo.
Pandinotaura pachena ini ndinotanga nekubvunza mibvunzo miviri. Chekutanga ndechokuti, "Unofunga kuti hondo inogara yakarurama, dzimwe nguva yakarurama, kana kuti isina kumbobvira yakarurama here?" Ichokwadi, vanenge vose vanoenda "dzimwe nguva vakarurama." Ipapo ndinovabvunza vanhu ivavo kuti vaise maoko avo mumhepo uye, kana vachigona , kutumidza hondo dzekuAmerica ikozvino. Zvinenge zvisingamboiti kuti ndinowana munhu mumwe chete anokwanisa kunyange kutumidza nyika dzatiri kuedza kuputira. (Izvo, zvechokwadi, inhamba shoma shoma kupfuura nyika umo tine mashomanana anonzi anonzi masimba anobudirira anoshandira kuparadza hurumende.) Ndinoreva, kunyange Umambo hweRoma hunogona kuchengeta hondo dzayo. Hondo yedu yehondo haina kumboitika. Iko kushandiswa kwenyika yose neUnited States kuburitsa zvombo munzvimbo uye satellite tekomboti yezvombo munzvimbo. IU.S. ine zvombo zvigungwa pamahombekombe, nemakungwa pamakungwa makuru pasi pose, pamwe nekusvika 800 zvigaro zvehondo mune dzimwe nyika dze70 nenzvimbo dzakapoteredza nyika. Tine chikwata chekuzvirumbidza pamusoro pekuva nemauto muZ175 kana ku176 nyika. Dzimwe nguva iyo inongova mauto mashoma; asi, kune vazhinji vavo, zviuru zvemauto. Takaona Putin amire pedyo neTrump muHelsinki achangobva kutaura achiti aida US kuti apinde muchibvumirano chekuvhara zvombo zvose kubva kune zvigaro. Zvechokwadi, Trump haina hanya nazvo; uye haana mumwe mutungamiri mumakore ekupedzisira e75. Mamwe ose emarudzi enyika anobatanidza pamwe pamwe neA30 zvigaro zvehondo izvo zviri kunze kwemiganhu yavo. Tinoti Russia, ine zvigaro zvehondo mumapfumbamwe-vazhinji vavo vekare vaiva nhengo dzeSoviet Union-uye nyika dzatisina kukwanisa kutonga saIran kana North North, izvo zvisingambovi kunze kwezvidzidzo zvemauto, sekusateerera mutemo , sechisimba.
Asi hapana chinobvumirwa nemutemo pamusoro pekuisa mauto eUnited States kune dzimwe nyika dzevanhu. Icho chinangwa chakajeka ndechokuti kuve neuto reUnited States Kwose kwose. Icho chinhu chinoshamisa chemari yemari, njodzi yezvakatipoteredza, uye anokurudzira mhirizhonga. Zvinotitungamira kuti titsigire hurumende dzinodzvinyirira dzakabvumidza US kuvakira Inotungamira mukushandiswa kwemauto eUS kupokana nedemokrasi kuyedza idzi hurumende dzinodzvinyirira. Iyo njodzi kubva pakutanga kusvika pakupedzisira. Uye haina kufarirwa chero kupi. Ndicho chaicho bipartisan muchinjikwa-ideology, yakaderera-yakaturika michero yekutora pasi US mauto. Wese munhu anoda kuvhara mabhesheni ekunze kunze kwemauto eUS. Vazhinji veruzhinji vemo havana kumboda kuti vatange na / kana kuda kuvabvisa ipapo ipapo. Ichi chinhu icho World Beyond War iri kushanda kuti ibudirire mumubatanidzwa nemamwe mapoka mazhinji. Isu takave nemusangano mukuru muBaltimore gore rapfuura uye tine musangano wepasirese wakarongwa muDublin, Ireland, munaNovember 2018. Zvinofanirwa kuve zvinogoneka kuita kuti mamwe emabhesi aya avharwe. Nehurombo, kunyangwe vavhoti vanomhanya pachikuva vanopokana nekuvaka nyika uye nekunze mabasa - sezvakaitwa naVaObama naTrump - kamwechete muhofisi vakaramba vachidzika nenzira imwechete yekuparadzira zvehondo. Saka hatisati tave nesimba mukati mezvematongerwo enyika muWashington, DC, iri kurudyi pane izvi.
Mwedzi: Saka hondo ine utsinye uye inonyadzisa inodhura. Ndezvipi zvimwe zvatinoshandisa?
Swanson: Zvakare, ndakanyora bhuku rose panyaya iyi (A Global Security System, Chimwe Chinoenda Kuhondo), iyo inogona kuverengerwa kusununguka pa Nyika Isina Hondo website. IUnited States inogona kuzviita zviri nyore nyika inonyanya kudiwa pasi pose ine mari shoma shoma nekuedza kuburikidza nekurega "rubatsiro rwemasoja" uye kupa rutivi rwechimwe chezvinhu zvinobatsira mune zvisiri zvehondo panzvimbo.
Nhanho yekutanga mukugadzirisa matambudziko ndeyekurega kuigadzira pakutanga. Kutyisidzira uye masanctions uye kupomerwa kwenhema mukati memakore zvinogona kuwedzera kukakavara kunogona kubva kwatanga kuita hondo pamusoro pechiitiko chidiki, kunyangwe tsaona. Nekutora matanho ekudzivirira kumutsa matambudziko, kuyedza kukuru- pamwe neupenyu- kunogona kuponeswa.
Apo nharo dzisingabvumirwi dzinomuka, dzinogona kutaurirwa zviri nani kana zvikwereti zvakagadzirwa mukubvunzurudza uye kubvumirana. IUnited Nations inoda kusimbiswa, kuchinjwa, kana kuchinjwa nesangano inorambidza hondo uye inobvumira kuenzana kwakaenzana nehuwandu hwevanhu vemarudzi ose.
Isu tinodawo kushanda nesimba kushaya zvombo. Nyika dzakapakata zvombo dzinogona kubatsira munzira nhatu. Kutanga, shandisa zvombo - zvishoma kana zvizere. Chechipiri, rega kutengesa zvombo kune dzimwe nyika dzakawanda. Munguva yehondo yeIran-Iraq muma1980, angangoita makumi mashanu emakambani aipa zvombo, angangoita makumi maviri kumativi ese. Chechitatu, taurirana zvibvumirano zvekudzora zvombo nedzimwe nyika uye gadzirira kuongororwa kunozoona kusagadziriswa kwemauto nemapato ese.
Mwedzi: Ngatitaurei zvishoma nezvebhuku renyu razvino, Kuporesa Kunze kwekunyora: Chii chakashata nemafungiro atinoita nezveUnited States uye chii chatingaita pamusoro payo. Panozve, veAmerica vanoita sevanotenda nyaya pamusoro pavo ivo izvo hazvibatsiri nechokwadi nyika yose iri kutarisa.
Swanson: Ehe; ndizvo zvakandibatsira kunyora bhuku. Vakawanda veAmerica vanotenda kune humwe hunoita kuti United States ive nyika yakanakisisa munyika-zvinhu serusununguko, kana demokarasi, kana hurongwa hwedu hurumende, kana hurumende yekusununguka, kana rusununguko rwehurumende, kana kuti tsvakurudzo yepamusoro, kana inyanzvi, kana chimwe chinhu United States ndiyo huru pane. Asi, kana iwe uchitarisa, zvakaoma zvikuru kuwana chinhu chipi zvacho chero munhu upi zvake mune tsvakurudzo chero ipi zvayo, muUnited States kana kune imwe nzvimbo, kubva mune chero maonero ezvematongerwe enyika, kuti United States inhamba-imwe, kunze kwezvinhu zvimwe zvinotyisa zvisingabvumirwi nomunhu kuti tive nhamba mariri. Isu tiri mutungamiri, hongu, mumashandisi emasoja, marudzi akasiyana-siyana ekuparadzwa kwezvakatipoteredza, kuvhara vanhu mumakamuri, uye mamwe mashoma mashoma. Apo iwe uchienzanisa United States nedzimwe nyika dzakapfuma-uye vazhinji vavo havasi sevapfumi seUnited States-munoona kuti mune dzakawanda zveva nyika idzi, pane nguva yakareba yehupenyu, hutano hwakakura, kuchengeteka kukuru, mufaro mukuru, kukura kwezvakatipoteredza , zvishomanana zvemhirizhonga, zvishoma zvechisimba, zvikoro zviri nani, dzidzo yakanaka, nezvimwe zvakadaro. IUnited States inowanzonyoresa zviri nani pane dzimwe nyika dzakawanda, asi mune zvimwe zvingakosha zvinotarisa kunyange izvo. Zvinosuruvarisa, vagari vemuUnited States havazivi zvinhu izvi uye vanowanzoita kupfuura vagari venyika ipi zvayo kuti vataure kuti nyika yavo ndiyo yakanakisisa.
Dambudziko rekutenda nenzira iyi rinoratidzirwa mumitemo yedu yekunze-uyewo mukurapa kwevanhu vokutanga veAmerica. Nokuti tinotenda kuti mararamiro edu akakwirira kune vamwe, hatifungi nezvekuisa kune vamwe. Isu tinotenda kuti tinovaitira zvakanaka; kuti ivo vanofanira kuonga. Tinotenda kuti nyika yedu ine kodzero yekurwisa dzimwe nyika, kunyange kutora unilaterally, pasina kubvumirwa neUnited Nations. Asi isu hatitombofungi tiri rudzi rune simba. Sei? Nokuti isu tiri veAmerica Tiri nhamba imwe!
Zvakanaka kuda nyika yako uye kusarudza mumwe mutsika pamusoro pevamwe; asi zvinoratidzikawo zvine musoro kutarisira kuti vanhu mune dzimwe nyika vanofunga nenzira imwecheteyo pamusoro pekugara kwavanogara. Mune bhuku ndinotarisa nzira dzekufunga dzinogona kutishumira zviri nani-zvakadai sekutsanangurira zvakawanda nemunharaunda yedu uye nevanhu vemunharaunda yedu yevanhu, uye zvishoma nehurumende yenyika, hondo inotyisa yenyika, uye zvishomanana mupfungwa huru imwe 96% yevanhu. "IAmerica yakasiyana-siyana" ndiyo ndiyo nzira yekupedzisira yekugadzirisa hutsinye pakati pezvidzidzo zvakadzidziswa nevamwe vose muUnited States. Muzvikamu zvizhinji zvevaUnited-media, academia, uye kunyange hurumende, kwakave nekufambira mberi kukuru mukurwisana kwechisarura, zvepabonde, uye maitiro akawanda ekusarura, asi kusarura kune vanhu vemamwe nyika ichiri dambudziko guru.
Nhasi nhasi ndanga ndichitarisa tweet kubva kune CNN mutori wenhau achitaura kuti mamiririri eUnited States akanga asina kumbomanikidza hurumende yeUnited States kuhondo. Ndakatumira terevhizheni video yeVideo yeChirungu kubva kune 2016 Republican nharo huru apo vatungamiri vemutungamiri vehurumende vakabvunzwa neCNN mutevedzeri mutevedzeri, "Ungada here kuuraya mazana nezviuru zvevana vasina mhosva sechikamu chemabasa ako ekutanga semutungamiri?" 'Tifunga kune imwe nyika pasi pano iyo yakadaro mubvunzo yakabvunzwa munhaurirano dzerusarudzo. Zvinotyisa. Icho chinonzi sociopathic. Uye zvakadaro haina kunyange kutora nyaya. Icho chakanga chisiri chakanaka. Chaingova mubvunzo mubvunzo, asi ndeyeAmerica.
Handirevi kuti iwe unofanirwa kuuya kune yekuziva vanhu veAmerica vakaipa uye vanoda kunzwa vaine mhosva uye vachinyara. Ndinofunga kuti tinofanira kusvika pakuziva kuti, semunyika ipi zvese, zvinhu zvikuru nezvimwe zvinhu zvinotyisa zvave zvichiitwa. Tichave takanyanyogadzirisa kuita zvinhu zvakawanda zvakanaka kana tikarega kuzivisa neboka rehondo rehurumende uye kutanga kutarisana nevanhu-zvose zvakanaka uye zvakaipa mazviri zvinogona kuwanika kwose kwose. Ndinofunga kuti pane zvakawanda zvingawanikwa. Tinogona kuzvikudza muGermany nekusimudzira dzidzo yeFinnish. Tinogona kudada nezvose zvatinowana zvakanaka pasi pose uye rega kuuramba uye kukundikana kubatsirwa nayo nokuti haisi America. Hapana chinhu chinofanira kurasikirwa nekuisa mararamiro ekuda nyika. Iwe hauzombozvidembi kurasikirwa nezvinhu zvisina maturo. Iwe uchashamisika kuti wakamborarama sei pasina kubatsirwa kwekuziva nevose vanhu.
Mwedzi: Iwe unonyora kuti kodzero yepamutemo uye yezvematongerwe enyika yenyika yose inodiwa kuti ishandise hondo. Izvozvo zvingaita sei?
Swanson: Ndiwo mubvunzo murefu une mhinduro zhinji dzinogona kuitika. World Beyond War iri kuita musangano nezvenyaya iyi munaGunyana 2018 muToronto. Ini ndinogona kukuudza zviri nyore kwazvo kuti chii handidi fanana. Izvo hazvizoita seyakarongeka umo vatengesi vashanu vemauto makuru, kana makumi mana emakona makuru, vanoita UN Security Council uye vane masimba anokosha ekumhanya pasi; kana kuti ave nesimba rekupa simba pamusoro pemuviri mukuru; kana kuti kudarika International Criminal Court uye International Court of Justice. Izvi zvakajeka kwete hurongwa hwekusaruramisira, kunyange nemarudzi sezvikamu. Ndinofunga nezvekuda kwenyika pasi rose, zvakaoma sezvazvingave uye zvinotyisa sezvazvinonzwika kune vanhu vakawanda vakambodzidziswa kutiza kubva payo pfungwa, zvinosanganisira kumira kwevanhu vari maererano nehukuru hwavo, kwete nyika chete. Ndiri kureva, chinhu chiduku cheLiechtenstein neChina kuti mumwe nomumwe ave nevhoti imwe chete, asi zvinonyanya kushamisa kuti vatungamiri vese vehondo vapiwe masimba anokosha eUnited Security Council. Sangano reUnited Nations rakasikwa senzvimbo yepasi rose yekugumisa hondo, kufanana neUnited Nations, uye zvino tinoisa vese vanoita hondo-vanoita kuti vaitungamirire.
Saka tinofanira kuchinja kana kutsiva United Nations nehurongwa hunomiririra marudzi, asi hunomiririra vanhu maererano nehuwandu hwevanhu, uye hunobatanidza kunyatsotevedza. Teknolojia iripo yekubvumira kukurukurirana kwekutonga uye kusarudza kwekuita; izvo zvatinoda ndezvematongerwo enyika. Icho chinetso chaicho. Hatikwanisi kuoneka kubva pasi pehuori hwehupfumi hwehurumende dzehurumende zvakakwana kuti tishandise kuburikidza navo kuti tipe hurumende yakawanda-iyo yatinozofanira kuisa pakuderera kwehuori hwehupfumi. Asi ndinofunga kuti tinofanira. Ndinofunga kuti chikamu chemhinduro yacho chiri kukurudzira simba kusvika kunharaunda yemunharaunda uye kukudziridza kutonga kwema demokrasi nekuita zvisarudzo panzvimbo yepamunharaunda, panguva imwe chete ichisimudzira simba kusvika kuhuwandu hwepasi rese, uye huri hurumende dzehurumende dzinogara dzichida. Asi ndinofunga kuti miviri iyi inogona kunyatsogadzirisana. Kumwero iyo nzvimbo dzingatora pamutoro wekushanda kuumba nyika yose yemitemo, tichava nani kukwanisa kuvhara bhutiro iyo yakatengwa-uye-yakabhadharwa, inonzi inonzi democracy-nyika.
Mwedzi: Vateereri vanowanzowane sei ma anti-war messages?
Swanson: Ichokwadi chinotora zvishoma kuderedza pfungwa dzevanhu. Pakati pehafu yeawa kusvika paawa vanhu vanoda kuva rugare vanoita zvekuita nekuti havana kumbobvira vanzwa nharo pamusoro pehondo kare. Zvose zvitsva kwavari. Vakatarisana nehuwandu hwemapurisa ehuwandu hwemashoko, asi ivo kazhinji havana kana munhu achivatungamirira kuburikidza nharo kune rumwe rutivi. Izvi ndezvokwadi, zvakare, apo ini ndiri chikamu chepanzana kana nharo, uye kune vamiririri vehutano hwep-hondo pamusangano mumwe chete. Ndinofunga kuti pane zvakawanda zvakasununguka zvekurwisana nehondo munharaunda yevanhu vose kupfuura isu tinokurudzirwa kutenda.
Mwedzi: Unochengetedza sei tariro yako, kunyange kuzvipira kwako, kunyange kunyange kupindura kwatinoita kune vanhu vasingabvumirani nesu kunowanzoita zvechisimba? Semuenzaniso, Obama akatambudzwa zvakasimba mukugadzira Iran maitiro, sezvo Trump yave ichirwiswa "kubatanidza" kuna Putin. Chero chero rudzi rwemibvunzo yeAmerica yakasiyana, kana yehurumende yeUnited States yegargantuan, inoshandurwa se "un-America" uye "isina simba." Chii chinokuchengetedza iwe? Chii chinokupa tariro? Iwe unofanirwa kutarisa kune dzimwe nyika kukurudzira here?
Swanson: Zvichida hauna mhinduro yauchafunga kuti inogutsa, asi mumaonero angu, zvingangoita kuti tinoparadzwa nenjodzi yezvakatipoteredza. Izvo zvakare zvakakodzera kuti tinoparadzwa nyukireya apocalypse. Asi kana tikanyanya kushanda kuti tidzivise njodzi idzodzo, zviri nani zvatinogona. Kana tikagamuchira zvikwereti izvi sezvisingabvumirwi saka tinotongerwa zvimwe. Saka ndinotenda kuti isu tine mutoro wekuita zvose zvatinogona kuti tidzivise njodzi uye kuita zvose zvatinokwanisa zvishoma. Ndiani anoziva? Tinogona kubudirira. Uye kuedza kunonyanya kunakidza kudarika kupikisa pamusoro payo. Vamwe vanogona kuedza kutora mafungiro, "Zvakanaka, nyika yakatsvaga; Ndiri kunakidzwa neni chero bedzi inopera. "Asi mune zvakaitika kwandiri, iwe haufaniri kufara iwe nenzira iyo. Iwe unoramba uchinetseka. Zvisinei, kana ukasangana nevarume vakazvipira kubasa rimwechete, vanokurudzirana uye vanoita kuti nyika ive nzvimbo yakanaka, iwe uchawana kuzadzika uye kugutsikana uye kubatana uye kuwirirana kwevanhu vakagara vachitarisira. Vazhinji vavo vakatozviwana muhondo-nemigumisiro inotyisa nemigumisiro. Tsvakurudzo dzesayenzi panyaya iyi dzakatsigira kuti vanoita zvematongerwo enyika vanowanzofunga mupfungwa uye vanofara mupfungwa kune vanyengeri avo vakadzingwa. Saka iwe pachako [kuseka], zvibatanidze!
