UTariq Ali: Amacala Obuphekula Abhekene NowayenguNdunankulu wasePakistan u-Imran Khan "Ayamangaza Ngempela"

AMY U-GOODMAN: Lokhu Intando yeningi Manje!, democracynow.org, I-War and Peace Report. Ngingu-Amy Goodman, noJuan González.

Manje ake sibheke inkinga yezombusazwe ePakistan, lapho owayenguNdunankulu u-Imran Khan ebekwe icala ngaphansi koMthetho Wokulwa Nobuphekula wasePakistan. Ukudlondlobala kwakamuva phakathi kwezwe lasePakistan noKhan, osadume kakhulu kulandela ukuxoshwa kwakhe esikhundleni ngo-Ephreli kulokho akuchaza njengokuthi "ushintsho lombuso olwesekwa yi-US." UKhan uqhubekile nokubamba imihlangano emikhulu kulo lonke elasePakistan. Kodwa ngempelasonto, iziphathimandla zasePakistan zavala iziteshi zikamabonakude ukusakaza izinkulumo zakhe bukhoma. Khona-ke, ngoMsombuluko, amaphoyisa amvulela amacala okulwa nobushokobezi ngemuva kokuba ethule inkulumo esola amaphoyisa ngokuhlukumeza omunye wabasizi bakhe osondelene naye owayeboshiwe ngamacala okuvukela umbuso. Ngokushesha ngemva kokumenyezelwa kwamacala, amakhulu abalandeli bakaKhan babuthana ngaphandle komuzi wakhe ukuvimbela amaphoyisa ukuba ambophe. Kamuva ngoMsombuluko, uKhan uphendule la macala enkulumweni yakhe e-Islamabad.

I-IMRAN I-KHAN: [kuhunyushwe] Ngangibizele ukubathathela izinyathelo zomthetho, izikhulu zamaphoyisa nezimantshi zenkantolo, futhi uhulumeni wangibhalisela icala lobuphekula. Okokuqala, benza okungalungile. Uma sithi sizothatha izinyathelo zomthetho, bangibhalisa icala futhi bangikhiphele incwadi yokungibopha. Kubonisani lokhu? Akukho ukubusa komthetho ezweni lakithi.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Ngakho-ke, manje sesijoyinwe eLondon nguTariq Ali, isazi-mlando sase-Pakistani saseBrithani, isishoshovu, umenzi wefilimu, ekomitini labahleli be- Ukubukeza okusha kwesokunxele, umbhali wezincwadi eziningi, kuhlanganise Ukuvukela ePakistan: Ungawehlisa Kanjani Ubushiqela, eyaphuma eminyakeni embalwa edlule, futhi Ingabe IPakistan Ingasinda? Incwadi yakhe yakamuva, UWinston Churchill: Izikhathi Zakhe, Amacala Akhe, sizokhuluma ngayo kolunye uhlelo. Futhi sikhuluma ngalokhu phakathi kwalezi zikhukhula ezinkulu zasePakistan, futhi sizofika kulokho ngomzuzu.

Tariq, khuluma ngokubaluleka kwamacala obushokobezi abekwe u-Imran Khan, owaxoshwa kulokho akubiza ngokushintsha kombuso osekelwa yi-US.

I-TARIQ ALI: Phela, u-Imran wayecasule i-United States. Akukho kungabaza ngalokho. Wayeshilo - lapho uKabul ewa, wathi esidlangalaleni, njengondunankulu, ukuthi abantu baseMelika benza uthuthuva olukhulu kulelozwe, futhi lokhu kungumphumela. Kwathi ngemva kokudedelwa kwempi yase-Ukraine uPutin, u-Imran wayeseMoscow ngalolo suku. Akazange aphawule ngayo, kodwa umangele nje ukuthi kwenzeke ngesikhathi evakashele esifundazweni. Kepha wenqaba ukusekela unswinyo olubhekiswe eRussia, futhi wagxekwa ngalokho, waphendula wathi, “I-India ayisekeli unswinyo. Kungani ungabagxeki? I-China ayibasekeli. Iningi lomhlaba, iThird World, alibasekeli. Kungani ungikhetha?” Kodwa wayesephenduke isicefe. Ukuthi i-United States ifaka okuningi kakhulu kukho, asazi. Kodwa ngokuqinisekile, amasosha, abusa kakhulu kwezombusazwe zasePakistan, kufanele acabange ukuthi ukujabulisa i-United States, kungcono amsuse. Futhi akungabazeki ukuthi ngaphandle kokusekelwa kwamasosha ngokususwa kwakhe, ubengeke akhishwe esikhundleni.

Manje, ababekucabanga noma ababekucabanga ukuthi u-Imran wayezolahlekelwa ukuthandwa, ngoba uhulumeni wakhe wawenze amaphutha amaningi. Kube nokukhulunywa ngenkohlakalo yomkakhe, njll., njll. Kwabe kwenzeka okuthile ngoJulayi okwanyakazisa ukusungulwa, ukuthi esifundazweni esinabantu abaningi nesibalulekile ezweni, esibalulekile ngokwamandla, iPunjab, babengu-20. okhethweni lokuchibiyela lwezihlalo zephalamende, kwathi u-Imran wawina ezili-15 kuzo. Angase awine amanye amabili, ukube iqembu lakhe belihleleke kangcono. Ngakho-ke lokho kwakhombisa ukuthi ukumeseka, uma kuhwamuka, kuyabuya, ngoba abantu bavele bashaqeka ngohulumeni osuthathe isikhundla sakhe. Futhi lokho, ngicabanga ukuthi, kuphinde kwanika u-Imran ithemba elikhulu lokuthi angalunqoba kalula ukhetho lukazwelonke oluzayo. Futhi wahamba ohambweni olukhulu lwezwe, okwakukhona kuzo izingxenye ezimbili: Amasosha abeke osopolitiki abakhohlakele emandleni, futhi i-United States ihlele ukuguqulwa kombuso. Futhi enye yezingoma ezinkulu kakhulu kuyo yonke le mibhikisho, eyayinamakhulu ezinkulungwane zabantu kuyo, yayiwukuthi “Lowo ongumngane wase-United States uyimbuka. Imbuka.” Leyo kwakuyingoma enkulu nengoma eyayidume kakhulu ngaleso sikhathi. Ngakho, akungabazeki ukuthi usezakhe futhi.

Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi yilowo mcimbi, u-Amy, ngoJulayi, wokukhombisa ukwesekwa okudumile ngokhetho, lapho engasekho ngisho namandla, owabakhathaza, ngakho bebeqhuba umkhankaso ngokumelene naye. Ukumbopha ngaphansi kwemithetho emelene nobuphekula kubi ngempela. Uke wahlasela amajaji phambilini. Ubehlasela ezinye zeziphathimandla ezinkulumweni zakhe ngolunye usuku. Uma nifuna ukumbopha, nina- ningammangalela ngokudelela inkantolo, ukuze ahambe ayolwa nalokho, sizobona ukuthi ubani ophumelelayo, futhi kuyiphi inkantolo. Kodwa esikhundleni salokho, bambopha ngaphansi kwemithetho yobuphekula, okuyinto ekhathazayo, ukuthi uma inhloso kungukuthi angangeni okhethweni oluzayo ngenxa yamacala abizwa ngokuthi ubuphekula, lokho kuzodala umonakalo omkhulu ezweni. Akakhathazekile kakhulu okwamanje, kulokho engingakwazi ukukuqoqa.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Futhi, Tariq, bengifuna ukukubuza - njengoba kuqubuke imibhikisho emikhulu yokumeseka, kungumqondo wakho ukuthi nabantu okungenzeka ukuthi babemelene no-Imran Khan bahlangana ngemuva kwakhe, ngokumelene nokusungulwa kwezepolitiki nezempi izwe? Phela - kanye nokungahle kube nokuphazamiseka okuqhubekayo ezweni elingelesihlanu ngobukhulu emhlabeni ngokwesibalo sabantu.

I-TARIQ ALI: Yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi bakhathazekile. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi u-Imran wenze ukuphawula okubaluleke kakhulu enkulumweni yakhe ngempelasonto. Wathi, “Ungakhohlwa. Lalelani izinsimbi ezishaywayo eSri Lanka,” lapho kwakukhona khona ukuvukela umbuso okwakugcwele isigodlo sikamongameli nokwaholela ekutheni umongameli abaleke kwase kuba nezinguquko ezimbalwa. Uthe, “Asikehli ngaleyo ndlela, kodwa sifuna ukhetho olusha, futhi siyalufuna maduze.” Manje, lapho bethatha izintambo, uhulumeni omusha wathi sizozama ukuba nokhetho ngoSepthemba noma ngo-Okthoba. Manje sebeluhlehlisele lolu khetho kuze kube ngu-Agasti ngonyaka ozayo.

Futhi, Juan, kufanele uqonde ukuthi ngasikhathi sinye, isivumelwano sikahulumeni omusha ne I-IMF kusho ukukhuphuka kwentengo okukhulu ezweni. Baningi abantu manje abangakwazi ukuthenga ukudla okuyisisekelo kwezwe. Sekubize kakhulu. Intengo kaphethiloli ikhuphukile. Ngakho, kwabampofu, asebenogesi omncane, kuwukuhlukumezeka ngokuphelele. Futhi abantu, vele, basola uhulumeni omusha, ngoba lo nguhulumeni owenze isivumelwano I-IMF, futhi isimo somnotho ezweni sibucayi kakhulu. Futhi lokhu kuphinde kwakhulisa ukuthandwa kuka-Imran, ngaphandle kokungabaza. Ngiqonde ukuthi inkulumo ithi ukube kunokhetho oluzobanjwa ezinyangeni ezine ezizayo, uzoshanela izwe.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Futhi ukhulume ngeqhaza lamasosha kwezepolitiki zasePakistan. Bebunjani ubudlelwano bamasosha no-Imran ngaphambi kokuthi kuqubuke le nkinga, ngaphambi kokuxoshwa kwakhe njengondunankulu?

I-TARIQ ALI: Hhayi-ke, bamgunyazile ukuthi angene esikhundleni. Akukho kungabaza ngalokho. Ngisho ukuthi kungase kube amahloni kuye nakubo manje kulesi simo esikhona ezweni, kodwa akungabazeki ukuthi amasosha empeleni ayemlandela ngesikhathi ethatha izintambo zombuso. Kodwa njengabanye osopolitiki, usesebenzise amandla akhe wazakhela isizinda esikhulu ezweni, elake lagcinwa kuphela kuhulumeni, umbuso wasePakhtunkhwa, uhulumeni, uhulumeni owakhethwa engxenyeni esenyakatho yezwe, emngceleni Afghanistan, kodwa manje isakazeka, ngisho nasezingxenyeni zeKarachi. Futhi i-Punjab manje ibonakala iyinqaba, enye ye-PTI - yeqembu lika-Imran - izinqaba ezinkulu.

Ngakho-ke, amasosha nezepolitiki abenzi ngendlela yabo. Ngiqonde ukuthi, bebecabanga ukuthi bangadala uzinzo olusha nabazalwane bakwaSharif. Manje, okuthakazelisayo, uJuan, futhi okungakaze kubikwe ukuthi ngaphambi kukaShehbaz Sharif, uyazi, engena ngokulangazela ezicathulweni zika-Imran, kwaba khona ukuhlukana, ngiyatshelwa, phakathi kwabazalwane ababili. Umfowabo omdala, uNawaz Sharif, owayengundunankulu, eBrithani, kuthiwa uyagula, ngoba ekhishwe ejele ngamacala enkohlakalo ukuze ayohlinzwa eBrithani - useneminyaka ethile elapha - wayephikisana noShehbaz. ezothatha isikhundla. Uthe, “Kungcono siye okhethweni lukazwelonke olusheshayo kuyilapho u-Imran engathandwa, futhi singase siwine lokho, bese sizoba neminyaka ezayo.” Kodwa umfowabo wamedlula yena noma yini, nokho-ke bazilungisa lezi zingxabano, futhi bathi, “Cha, cha, sidinga uhulumeni omusha manje. Isimo sibi.” Awu, lo umphumela.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Bengifuna futhi ukukubuza mayelana nezikhukhula ezimbi ezenzeka ePakistan, eTariq. Ezinyangeni ezimbili ezedlule, izimvula ezinamandla ngendlela engavamile ziholele ekufeni kwabantu ababalelwa ku-800, izikhukhula ezicekele phansi amakhaya angaphezu kuka-60,000. Nanka amazwi abantu abasinde ezikhukhuleni.

I-AKBAR BALOCH: [kuhunyushwe] Sikhathazeke kakhulu. Abadala bakithi bathi abakaze bayibone imvula nezikhukhula ezinjena eminyakeni engama-30 kuya kwengama-35 edlule. Siyaqala ukubona izimvula ezinamandla kangaka. Manje sikhathazekile ngokuthi, uNkulunkulu makube kude, lolu hlobo lwemvula enamandla lungase luqhubeke esikhathini esizayo, ngoba isimo sezulu siyashintsha. Ngakho manje sinovalo ngempela ngalokhu. Sikhathazeke ngempela.

I-SHER MOHAMMAD: [kuhunyushwe] Imvula yacekela phansi indlu yami. Imfuyo yami yalahleka yonke, amasimu ami acekeleke phansi. Izimpilo zethu kuphela ezisindisiwe. Akukho okunye okusele. Ngiyabonga uNkulunkulu, usindise impilo yezingane zami. Manje sesisemseni kaAllah.

MOHAMMAD U-AMINE: [kuhunyushwe] Impahla yami, indlu yami, yonke into yayigcwele amanzi. Ngakho sakhosela ophahleni lwesikole sikahulumeni izinsuku ezintathu nobusuku obuthathu, cishe abantu abangu-200 abanezingane. Sahlala ophahleni izinsuku ezintathu. Lapho amanzi ebohla kancane, sakhipha izingane odakeni futhi sahamba izinsuku ezimbili saze safika endaweni ephephile.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Ngakho-ke, kungenzeka ukuthi kusondele abantu abayinkulungwane abafile, amashumi ezinkulungwane ashiye amakhaya. Ukubaluleka kwalokhu kuguquka kwesimo sezulu ePakistan nokuthi kuyithinta kanjani ipolitiki yezwe?

I-TARIQ ALI: Kuthinta ipolitiki emhlabeni wonke, Amy. Futhi iPakistan, vele, ayinjalo - ayikwazi ukukhishwa, futhi ayihlukile. Kodwa okwenza iPakistan, ngokwezinga elithile, ihluke ukuthi izikhukhula zalesi silinganiso - kuyiqiniso lokho umuntu akusho - ukuthi abakaze babonwe ngaphambili, ngokuqinisekile hhayi enkumbulweni ephilayo. Kube nezikhukhula, futhi njalo, kodwa hhayi ngalesi sikali. Ngisho, ngisho nedolobha laseKarachi, okuyidolobha lezimboni elikhulu kunawo wonke ezweni, elingakaze libone izikhukhula esikhathini esidlule, babenjalo - ingxenye yedolobha yayingaphansi kwamanzi, kuhlanganise nezindawo lapho abantu besigaba esiphakathi nabasezingeni eliphakathi behlala khona. . Ngakho, kube ukushaqeka okukhulu.

Umbuzo yilo - futhi lona umbuzo ovela noma nini lapho kuba nokuzamazama komhlaba, isikhukhula, inhlekelele yemvelo: Kungani iPakistan, ohulumeni abalandelanayo, amasosha kanye nezakhamuzi, bengakwazi ukwakha ingqalasizinda yomphakathi, inetha lokuphepha labantu abavamile. abantu? Ilungele abacebile nabacebile. Bangakwazi ukuphunyuka. Bangalishiya izwe. Bangaya esibhedlela. Banokudla okwanele. Kodwa ngobuningi bezwe, akunjalo. Futhi lokhu kugqamisa nje inkinga yenhlalo ebidla iPakistan, futhi manje eseyacekelwa phansi kakhulu I-IMF izimfuno, ezibhidliza izwe. Ngisho ukuthi kukhona ukungondleki ezingxenyeni ezithile zezwe. Lezi zikhukhula zacekela phansi i-Balochistan, enye yezindawo ezimpofu kakhulu zezwe kanye nesifundazwe ebesinganakwa iminyaka eminingi, amashumi amaningi eminyaka ohulumeni abalandelanayo. Ngakho-ke, uyazi, sihlala sikhuluma futhi sisebenza mayelana nezinhlekelele zemvelo ezithile noma izinhlekelele zokushintsha kwesimo sezulu, kodwa uhulumeni kufanele amise ikhomishana yokuhlela ukuze empeleni ahlele ukwakha isakhiwo sezenhlalakahle, ingqalasizinda yezenhlalakahle yezwe. Lokhu akusebenzi ePakistan kuphela, kunjalo. Amanye amazwe amaningi kufanele enze okufanayo. Kodwa ePakistan, isimo sibi kakhulu, ngoba abacebile abanandaba. Abanandaba nje.

AMY U-GOODMAN: U-Tariq Ali, ngaphambi kokuthi sihambe, sinemizuzwana engu-30, futhi bengifuna ukukubuza ngesimo sikaJulian Assange. Sisanda kwenza ingxenye kubameli bakaJulian Assange nezintatheli ezimangalela CIA kanye noMike Pompeo uqobo, owangaphambili CIA umqondisi, ngokusebenza nenkampani yaseSpain ekuxazululeni inkinga yenxusa, ukuqopha ividiyo, ukulalelwayo, ukuthatha amakhompyutha nezingcingo zezivakashi, ukukulanda, ukuphazamisa ilungelo lommeli weklayenti. Ngabe lokhu kungamisa ukukhishwa kukaJulian Assange, obhekene namacala obunhloli e-United States?

I-TARIQ ALI: Hhayi-ke, kufanele, Amy - leyo yimpendulo yokuqala - ngoba leli bekuyicala lezepolitiki kusukela ekuqaleni. Iqiniso lokuthi izikhulu eziphezulu zaxoxisana ngokuthi ambulale u-Assange noma cha, futhi izwe lapho uhulumeni waseBrithani kanye namajaji, besebenzisana, bembuyisela emuva, bethi leli akulona icala lezepolitiki, lokhu akukona ukuhlukunyezwa kwezepolitiki. , kuyashaqisa kakhulu.

Nokho, ngithemba ukuthi leli cala liletha amanye amaqiniso phambili futhi kuthathwe izinyathelo ezithile, ngoba lokhu kubuyisela ngempela kufanele kumiswe. Sonke siyazama, kodwa osopolitiki, ikakhulukazi, ikakhulukazi izinhlangothi zombili - kanye nondunankulu omusha wase-Australia emkhankasweni wokhetho bathembisa ukuthi kukhona azokwenza. Ngomzuzu nje eba undunankulu, uvele avume ngokuphelele e-United States - akumangazi. Kodwa okwamanje impilo kaJulian imbi. Sikhathazeke kakhulu ngendlela aphathwa ngayo ejele. Akufanele aboshwe, ngisho noma ezokhishwa. Ngakho-ke, ngithemba okuhle kodwa ngesaba okubi kakhulu, ngoba akufanele umuntu abe nenkohliso mayelana nalesi sikhungo sokwahlulela.

AMY U-GOODMAN: UTariq Ali, isazi-mlando, isishoshovu, umenzi wefilimu, umbhali we Ukuvukela ePakistan: Ungawehlisa Kanjani Ubushiqela. Incwadi yakhe yakamuva, UWinston Churchill: Izikhathi Zakhe, Amacala Akhe.