Umlingisi oqokwe u-Oscar uJames Cromwell Ukhuluma Ngaphambi Kokuboshwa Ngombhikisho Onokuthula Wokulwa Nokukhwabanisa

AMY U-GOODMAN: Umlingisi oqokwe njengo-Oscar u-James Cromwell ubikwa ejele ngo-4:00 ntambama ngesikhathi saseMpumalanga namuhla enyakatho yeNew York, ngemuva kokugwetshwa isonto lonke ebhadle ejele ngokuba nengxenye embhikishweni ongenalo udlame omelene nesikhungo sikagesi esiphehlwa ngegesi yemvelo. UCromwell uthi uzophinde aqale isiteleka sokulamba. Ungesinye sezishoshovu eziyisithupha eziboshelwe ukuvimba isiminyaminya endaweni yokuhlala ngaphandle kwesiza sokwakhiwa kwemboni yamamegawathi angu-650 e-Wawayanda, eNew York, enyakatho nesifundazwe, ngoDisemba 2015. Izishoshovu zithi lesi sikhungo sizogqugquzela ukuqhekeka kwegesi yemvelo ezifundazweni ezingomakhelwane futhi sibambe iqhaza. ekushintsheni kwesimo sezulu.

UJames Cromwell waziwa kakhulu ngezindima zakhe kumafilimu angama-50 aseHollywood, oqokelwe indondo ye-Oscar in Babe, kanye nenani lochungechunge lwe-TV, okuhlanganisa Six Feet Under. Ngikhulume naye ngoLwesine kanye nomunye wabamangalelwa naye ozoboshwa namuhla, kanye, u-Pramilla Malick, umsunguli we-Protect Orange County, iqembu lomphakathi elihola iqembu eliphikisayo esikhungweni sokuphehla ugesi esiqhekekile. Ugijime ngo-2016 eSenate yesifunda saseNew York. Ngiqale ngokubuza uJames Cromwell ukuthi kungani ezoboshwa namuhla.

JAMES CROMWELL: Sonke, sisemzabalazweni, hhayi ukuvikela indlela yokuphila, kodwa ukuvikela impilo ngokwayo. Izikhungo zethu azikhonzile. Abaholi bethu banesandla. Futhi umphakathi udumele futhi awujabuli ngayo yonke le nqubo. Kukhona ukuxhumana okuqondile phakathi kwesitshalo e-Minisink—

AMY U-GOODMAN: Ikuphi i-Minisink?

JAMES CROMWELL: EWawayanda. Kusenyakatho yeNew York. Bayibiza ngasenyakatho. Alikho kude kakhulu ngaphezu komngcele waseNew Jersey. Phakathi kwaleso sitshalo neMpumalanga Ephakathi. Asilwi kuphela ne-Iraq ne-Syria ne-Afghanistan ne-Yemen. Sisempini ne-Dimock, ePennsylvania, lapho igesi ivela khona, ne-Wawayanda, esebenzisa igesi, ne-Seneca Lake, lapho yayizogcinwa khona, kanye ne-Standing Rock.

Futhi yisikhathi, empeleni, ukubiza isifo. Iningi labantu alikwazi ukubeka umunwe embangela yalokho, kodwa wonke umuntu uyalubona usongo. I-Capitalism ingumdlavuza. Futhi okuwukuphela kwendlela yokunqoba lo mdlavuza ukuguqula ngokuphelele, ngokuphelele indlela yethu yokuphila nendlela yethu yokucabanga ngathi. Futhi lokho ngikubiza ngoguquko olukhulu. Ngakho lena inguquko.

I-NERMEEN SHAIKH: Ngakho-ke, chaza ukuthi siyini isixhumanisi. Ubungxiwankulu, uthi, buyimbangela yalokho okwenzekayo, i-US yenza, eMpumalanga Ephakathi, kanye nokwenzeka enyakatho yeNew York kanye ne-Standing Rock nokunye.

JAMES CROMWELL: Lesi sitshalo sakhiwe inkampani okuwukuphela kwayo okuthakaselayo ukudala inzuzo. Asikho isidingo sikagesi, futhi indlela amandla akhiqizwa ngayo iyakwazi ukuphila emphakathini. Futhi manje, lowo wumphakathi ofinyelela kude, ngoba uzoba nomthelela nakubantu baseNew York. Zonke izinhlayiya eziphuma kulezi zinhlayiya ekugcineni ziphelela e-New York City. Ngakho wonke umuntu uyathinteka.

Manje, lokho kwenziwa ngoba sizama ukuba nokuzimela kwamandla. Lawo mandla esizama ukuzimela kuwo yigesi namafutha aqhamuka eMpumalanga Ephakathi. Ngenkathi iMpumalanga Ephakathi iqala ukuqhubekela phambili kohulumeni bentando yeningi, uhulumeni wase-United States kanye nabanye ohulumeni, iBrithani, iFrance, yonke imibuso yamakoloni, yathi, "Cha, cha, cha. Awuphokophele entandweni yeningi, ngoba uma udlulela entandweni yeningi, usongela ukufinyelela kwethu emandleni akho.” Futhi ngakho, bonakalisa, ngezindlela zabo siqu ezingcolile.

Futhi ekugcineni, lokho kwaholela e-esiyidalile ISIS. Thina, baseMelika, sakha ISIS, ukuze silwe nokunye—iphutha elifanayo nesalenza nama-mujahideen e-Afghanistan. Futhi lokho ukuvikela izithakazelo zethu esinazo. Uma ubheka uMnu Tillerson, uMnu. Tillerson uhlezi phezu kwezivumelwano zenani lesigidi sesigidi samaRandi namaRussia. Futhi ngakho, unaye—

AMY U-GOODMAN: Ngenkathi ekhona CEO ye-ExxonMobil.

JAMES CROMWELL: Ngenkathi ekhona CEO, okusalindile. Kusengathinta inkampani yakhe. Angathinta inkampani yakhe, ngokushesha nje lapho ukuvinjelwa sekususiwe. Ngakho-ke, ngithi kukhona ukuxhumana, uma ukhuluma ngamandla. Amandla adingeka emhlabeni wonke futhi akhiqizwa ezindaweni ezithile kuphela. Manje sikhiqiza amandla ngokuqhumisa umhlaba futhi sibambe igesi ye-methane evalelekile, engakwazi ukuhambisana nezempilo. Futhi sikuthumela lokho ngamapayipi. Inhloso yayo enkulu, nokho, akukhona ukunika amandla isikhungo sikagesi. Iwukuthumela eCanada ukuze i-liquefy, lapho bengathola khona inzuzo ephindwe kasithupha ngokudayisa leyo gesi kunaleyo abangayenza e-United States.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Ngakho-ke, ake ngikubuze ukuthi kwenzekani cishe eminyakeni emibili edlule. Ngiqonde ukuthi uzobhadla ejele manje, kodwa isenzo owasenza ngoJune 2015. Sitshele ukuthi wayaphi futhi wenzeni.

JAMES CROMWELL: Besinombhikisho wokuqopha phambi kwalesi sitshalo esakhiwa iminyaka emibili nesigamu. Futhi kwafinyelela iphuzu—abantu abaningi abadlulayo bashaya amahutha besekela, kodwa akwenzekanga lutho. Sizamile—

AMY U-GOODMAN: Futhi lesi isitshalo—

JAMES CROMWELL: Kuyisikhungo, indawo yokuphehla amandla kagesi ephukile, okusho ukuthi bangenisa igesi ePennsylvania.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Futhi bakhona?

JAMES CROMWELL: Hhayi-ke, lokho - lokhu kuyi-

AMY U-GOODMAN: Inkampani?

JAMES CROMWELL: I-Competitive Power Ventures yakha lesi sikhungo.

AMY U-GOODMAN: I-CPV.

JAMES CROMWELL: Kodwa kukhona i-Millennium Pipeline, uPramilla azi kabanzi ngayo, ukuthi umnikazi wayo. Empeleni ingeyezinkampani ezinkulu ezintathu: iMitsubishi, GE kanye neCredit Suisse. Manje, lezo zinkampani ezintathu ezinkulu zamazwe ngamazwe zingaba yini isithakazelo kulesi sitshalo, esinesayizi emaphakathi, nakuba sicekela phansi? Abakuthakaselayo, kuyisandulela sezitshalo ezifanayo ezingu-300. Uma lesi sitshalo sakhiwe futhi sitholakala ku-inthanethi, asikho isizathu sokungakhi ezinye zalezi zitshalo. Sikholelwa ukuthi lena idinga ukumiswa, uma ufuna ukumisa konke ukwakhiwa kwengqalasizinda ye-hydrofracking kanye nomthelela wayo endaweni yethu.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Pho wenzeni?

JAMES CROMWELL: Siqhamuke necebo lokuzibophela ndawonye. Sazibopha ngamaketanga kanye nezingidi zamabhayisikili, futhi savala umnyango wesikhungo isikhathi esingaba—ngokomthetho wecala, cishe imizuzu engama-27. Futhi ijaji kanye nomshushisi babonakala besikisela ukuthi akwenzanga mehluko ngokuphelele ngokwenzeka ngalesi sitshalo. Kodwa kuyawenza umehluko. Esizama ukukukhipha ngumlayezo wokuthi lesi yisibonelo esisodwa, kodwa siyenzeka kulo lonke leli zwe kanye nomhlaba wonke. Balwa nayo eNgilandi. Bakulwa emhlabeni wonke.

I-NERMEEN SHAIKH: Ngakho-ke, Pramilla, ungakhuluma ngokuthi siyini lesi sitshalo, ukuthi uhlanganyele kanjani emibhikishweni, ukuthi lesi sitshalo senzelwe ukwenzani nokuthi ucabanga ukuthi kungaba yini imithelela yezempilo yomphakathi, uma sakhiwe?

PRAMILLA MALICK: Ngakho-ke, lesi isizinda samandla kagesi aqhekekile wamamegawathi angama-650. Kuzoncika emithonjeni eyikhulu kuya kweyi-150 ngonyaka. Ngakho-ke siyazi ukuthi, ePennsylvania, kukhona—amazinga okufa kwezingane ayenyuka. Amazinga omdlavuza ayanda. Ama-aquifers ayangcoliswa. Kepha kanye nalokho, imithelela yezempilo ihamba yonke inethiwekhi yengqalasizinda. Ngakho-ke ngihlala eduze kwesiteshi se-compressor, futhi sesivele siyibhalile imithelela yezempilo emphakathini wakithi, e-Minisink, yokopha, izinhlungu zekhanda, ukuqubuka, izimpawu zemizwa.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Futhi lokhu kuwumphumela?

PRAMILLA MALICK: Ukuchayeka esiteshini se-compressor segesi esaphukile, isiteshi se-Minisink compressor station. Futhi lokhu kwabhalwa ithimba lososayensi. Ngakho-ke, uyazi, ubuchwepheshe busha, futhi abantu bayaqala—ososayensi bayagijima ukuze bazame ukuqonda ukuthi kwenzekani. Kodwa imiphakathi ehamba phambili, njengeyethu, siyayizwa. Siyakubona. Siyazi ukuthi kunomthelela wezempilo. Futhi-

AMY U-GOODMAN: Futhi-ke, uzibandakanye kanjani nalo mbhikisho wangoJuni 2015, futhi wenzeni ngempela?

PRAMILLA MALICK: Nokho, nami ngizivalele phansi, noJames Cromwell kanye noMadeline Shaw.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Futhi uMadeline Shaw?

PRAMILLA MALICK: Ungumuntu osekhulile ohlala emphakathini. Ukhathazeke kakhulu ngoba unomuzwa wokuthi kuzomele ashiye ikhaya ahlala kulo kusukela ngo-1949, uma lesi sitshalo sakhiwe.

AMY U-GOODMAN: UJames ukhulume ngeSeneca Lake. Manje, bekungekho yini ukunqoba kwakamuva kwezazi zemvelo ezimise indawo yokugcina lapho?

PRAMILLA MALICK: Yebo.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Futhi lokhu kuhlobana kanjani nalokho ozama ukukumisa?

PRAMILLA MALICK: Hhayi-ke, babesesimeni esicishe sifane nesathi, ngendlela yokuthi bahileleke ohlelweni lokulawula, banxenxa, bamangalelwa, banxusa zonke izikhulu zabo ezikhethiwe, futhi abafikanga ndawo. Futhi ngakho baqala ukuhileleka ekungalalelini umphakathi. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kudale ingcindezi eyanele enkampanini ukuthi inkampani yagcina isihoxisile isicelo sayo saleso sikhungo sokugcina. Kepha uma ugunyaza isikhungo samandla kagesi esiqhekekile esingamamegawathi angama-650-futhi ngikhumbuza abantu ukuthi lokhu-lokhu kugunyazwe yisifunda saseNew York, nguMbusi wethu uCuomo, owavimba ukukhwabanisa, esho umthelela omubi wezempilo, nokho wagunyaza lesi sikhungo. ezoheha futhi incike ezinkulungwaneni zemithombo emisha yokuqhekeka phakathi nokuphila kwayo. Asisidingi nhlobo lesi sizinda sikagesi. Kodwa kuyakhiwa kunjalo.

Futhi, uyazi, iphrojekthi yezigidigidi zamadola. Kodwa kuzosilahlekisela, ngokusho kososayensi-futhi yingakho sihlanganyele ekungalalelini umphakathi, futhi saba nesivivinyo lapho sakwazi khona ukuletha ososayensi ukuthi bafakaze. Kuzobiza umphakathi amaRandi ayizigidi ezingu-940 ngonyaka ezindlekweni zokunakekelwa kwezempilo kanye nezindleko zengqalasizinda nezinye izindleko zezomnotho. Futhi izokwandisa ukukhishwa kwesisi esingcolisa umoya sombuso wethu ngamaphesenti angaphezu kwe-10 kuwo wonke umkhakha wamandla wesifunda saseNew York.

AMY U-GOODMAN: James Cromwell, ubungaqeda ukukhokha inhlawulo, kodwa ukhetha ukuya ejele. Uzobhadla ejele kuze kube nini? Futhi kungani wenza lokhu?

JAMES CROMWELL: Sagwetshwa izinsuku eziyisikhombisa. Kuya ekuboneni kwesikhungo ukuthi sisebenza isikhathi esingakanani. Kwesinye isikhathi uyehla ngenxa yokuziphatha okuhle. Anginalwazi. Ngilungiselela izinsuku eziyisikhombisa. Isizathu engenze ngakwenza kwakuwukuthi, angikwazi ukuthethelela ukungabi nabulungisa kwalokho engicabanga ukuthi kwakuyisinqumo esingenangqondo ngokuphelele nesilula. Ngakho-ke, ngicabanga ukuthi ukuya ejele kuyisitatimende sokuthi kufanele siwuphakamise kanjani umdlalo wethu. Akusafanele nje ukuphica nokunxusa, ngoba akekho olalelayo. Indlela abantu abawukhipha ngayo umyalezo ukuthi wenza isenzo sokungalaleli. Yilokho u-Tim DeChristopher akwenza, abaningi—bonke abantu e-Standing Rock. Leyo kwakuyinhloso ye-Standing Rock. Ukucaca kwe-Standing Rock kwakungabadala—ngoba ngangilapho—abadala bethi, “Lena inkambu yomkhuleko.” Ngamanye amazwi, livela emoyeni wethu wangaphakathi. Kufanele siguqule lo moya wangaphakathi. Kufanele siguqule ubuhlobo bethu neplanethi kanye nabantu abahlala kule planethi, kuhlanganise nabantu abasiphikisayo. Ngakho, ngikholwa ukuthi, ngendlela yethu encane, yileso sitatimende esisishoyo. Lesi yisikhathi sokukhulisa umdlalo. Lesi yisikhathi sokubhekana nembangela eyisisekelo yesifo sethu.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Bengifuna futhi ukukubuza mayelana nokuphawula kwakho mayelana nabantu abanenkinga yokuqamba i-capitalism njengomdlavuza.

JAMES CROMWELL: Yebo.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Kuzwakala njengokucashunwa kuka-Edward Abbey: “Ukukhula ngenxa yokukhula kuwumbono wengqamuzana lomdlavuza.”

JAMES CROMWELL: Silungile.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Ngokusebenzisa imvelo yakho, uthatha ubunxiwankulu.

JAMES CROMWELL: Yebo.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Akubona bonke abashisekeli bemvelo abakwenzayo. Ungakwazi ukuphawula ngalokho?

JAMES CROMWELL: Angikwazi ukukhulumela bonke abezemvelo. Ngicabanga ukuthi zonke izingqinamba-zonke izinto ezisikhohlisayo ziqala. Siyisiko eligxile ekufeni, ngokuthi “ukufa” okusho ukuthi lokho okubekwayo—okuyinhloko—iluphi ulimi esikhuluma ngalo kuwulimi lwasemakethe. Konke kuyathengiswa. Konke kushintshiwe. Futhi lokho okwenzayo-futhi-ke, kufanele udale inani elikhulu lenzuzo, okusho ukuthi kufanele ucindezele abasebenzi. Kufanele ucindezele izindleko zezinto zakho zemvelo. Kufanele ulawule izindawo zakho zokuthonya, ukuze i-China ingagcwali ngawo wonke uwoyela wase-Iran noma wase-Iraq. Ngakho-ke, khona manjalo, lolu hlobo lokucabanga luholela ohlotsheni lokungqubuzana esibhekana nalo yonke indawo.

Uma sibheka okunye—uma samukela ukuthi siyimilutha yethu yala mandla, ukulutheka kwethu endleleni yethu yokuphila, lokho esikuthatha kalula kuleli zwe, ngandlela thize—sinomthwalo wemfanelo. Uma samukela lowo mthwalo wemfanelo, ongafani nokusola—uma samukela lowo mthwalo wemfanelo, khona-ke singakushintsha lokhu ngokuqaphela okufanele sikushintshe indlela esihlobana ngayo nomhlaba wemvelo, nezinye izidalwa ezizwelayo, neplanethi. . Manje sesikubheka njengomgodi esingawusebenzisa—singadlwengula futhi siqongelele. Akunjalo. Kukhona ukulingana emvelweni, futhi siphule lokho kulinganisela. Futhi yilokho okuboniswa e-Antarctica namuhla. Ikhombisa emhlabeni wonke. Iplanethi isungula kabusha ibhalansi ngezindleko zethu.

AMY U-GOODMAN: Umlingisi oqokwe u-Oscar u-James Cromwell kanye no-Pramilla Malick bazobhadla ejele namuhla ngombhikisho wabo ongenalo udlame ngokumelene nesizinda samandla esiphehlwa ngegesi esisebenzisa igesi ephukile e-Orange County, eNew York. Ngixoxisane nabo ngoLwesine noNermeen Shaikh. Izishoshovu zizoqala zibambe umbuthano endaweni okwakhiwa kuyo izimboni, bese zizinikela ejele.