nguReiner Braun, I-International Peace Bureau, April 11, 2022
Ungakwazi ukuzethula maduze nje?
U-Oleg Bodrov: Ngingu-Oleg Bodrov, isazi sesayensi yemvelo, isazi sezinto eziphilayo nendawo yazo ezungezile kanye noSihlalo WoMkhandlu Womphakathi WaseNingizimu Shore weGulf of Finland, eSt. Ukuvikelwa kwemvelo, ukuphepha kwezikhali zenuzi kanye nokukhuthaza ukuthula kube yizinkomba eziyinhloko zomsebenzi wami kule minyaka engu-40 edlule. Namuhla, ngizizwa ngiyingxenye ye-Ukraine: umkami uyingxenye ye-Ukraine; uyise ungowaseMariupol. Abangane bami nozakwethu izazi zemvelo zaseKiev, Kharkiv, Dnipro, Konotop, Lviv. Ngingumqwali, ezindaweni ezikhuphukayo ngixhunywe intambo yokuphepha no-Anna P. wase-Kharkov. Ubaba, owayenengxenye eMpini Yezwe Yesibili, walimala ngo-January 1945 futhi welashwa esibhedlela saseDnepropetrovsk.
U-Yuri Sheliazhenko: Igama lami ngingu-Yurii Sheliazhenko, ngingumcwaningi wokuthula, uthisha kanye nesishoshovu sase-Ukraine. Imikhakha yami yobungcweti ukulawula ukungqubuzana, ithiyori yezomthetho nepolitiki kanye nomlando. Ngaphezu kwalokho, ngingunobhala ophethe we-Ukraine Pacifist Movement futhi ngiyilungu leBhodi le-European Bureau for Conscientious Objection (EBCO) kanye World BEYOND War (WBW).
Ungakwazi yini ukuchaza ukuthi usibona kanjani isimo sangempela?
OB: Isinqumo mayelana nokusebenza kwezempi ngokumelene ne-Ukraine senziwe nguMongameli waseRussia. Ngesikhathi esifanayo, izakhamuzi zaseRussia, zahlulela imibiko yezindaba ezizimele, zazikholelwa ukuthi impi ne-Ukraine yayingenakwenzeka ngokusemthethweni!
Kungani lokhu kwenzeka? Eminyakeni eyisishiyagalombili edlule, inkulumo-ze emelene ne-Ukraine ibisakazwa nsuku zonke kuzo zonke iziteshi zethelevishini zaseRussia. Bakhuluma ngobuthakathaka nokungathandwa komongameli base-Ukraine, abashisekeli bezwe bavimba ukungezwani neRussia, isifiso se-Ukraine sokujoyina i-EU ne-NATO. I-Ukraine ibhekwa nguMongameli waseRussia njengendawo ngokomlando eyingxenye yoMbuso WaseRussia. Ukuhlasela kwe-Ukraine, ngaphezu kokufa kwezinkulungwane zabantu, kwenyuse izingozi ezimbi emhlabeni wonke. Imisebenzi yezempi iqhutshwa endaweni enezimboni zamandla enuzi. Ukushaywa kwamagobolondo ngengozi ezikhungweni zamandla enuzi kuyingozi kakhulu kunokusetshenziswa kwezikhali ze-athomu.
YS: Ukuhlasela okungekho emthethweni kweRussia e-Ukraine kuyingxenye yomlando omude wobudlelwano nobutha phakathi kwamazwe womabili, futhi kuyingxenye yezingxabano ezinde phakathi kweNtshonalanga neMpumalanga. Ukuze sikuqonde ngokugcwele, kufanele sikhumbule i-colonialism, imperialism, impi ebandayo, "neoliberal" hegemony kanye nokukhuphuka kwama-wannabe illiberal hegemons.
Uma sikhuluma ngeRussia ne-Ukraine, into ebalulekile okumele siyiqonde ngale mpi engcolile phakathi kwamandla ama-imperialist asendulo kanye nombuso wama-archaic nationalist umlingisi ophelelwe yisikhathi wawo womabili amasiko ezombusazwe kanye nezempi: bobabili banokubuthwa kanye nohlelo lokukhuliswa kwezempi ngokushisekela izwe esikhundleni semfundo yomphakathi. Yingakho abaholi bezimpi nhlangothi zombili bebizana ngamaNazi. Ngokwengqondo, basahlala emhlabeni we-USSR "Great Patriotic War" noma "inhlangano yenkululeko yase-Ukraine" futhi bakholelwa ukuthi abantu kufanele bahlangane bezungeza umkhuzi wabo ophakeme ukuze bachoboze isitha sabo esikhona, lawa ma-Hitler-ites noma ama-Stalinists angewona angcono, esikhundleni so okuyinto abamangazayo ukubona umakhelwane abantu.
Ingabe kukhona okukhethekile kule mpikiswano umphakathi waseNtshonalanga ongawazi noma ongawazi kahle ngayo?
YS: Yebo, impela. Ukuhlakazeka kwe-Ukraine eMelika kwanda kakhulu ngemva kwezimpi zomhlaba ezimbili. I-US kanye nezinye izihlakaniphi zaseNtshonalanga ngesikhathi sempi ebandayo zaqasha ama-agent kule diaspora ukuthi asebenzise imizwa yobuzwe ukuze agqugquzele ukuhlukana e-USSR, futhi abanye abantu base-Ukrainian bezinhlanga baceba noma benza imisebenzi kwezombusazwe namasosha ase-US naseCanada, ngaleyo ndlela kwavela indawo yokwamukela izivakashi yase-Ukraine enezibopho. e-Ukraine kanye nezifiso zokungenela. Lapho i-USSR iwa futhi i-Ukraine ithola inkululeko, i-Western diaspora yahlanganyela ngenkuthalo ekwakheni isizwe.
Ingabe ikhona imisebenzi emelene nempi eRussia futhi uma kunjalo, ibukeka kanjani?
OB: Izenzo zokulwa nempi zenziwa eSt. Petersburg, eMoscow, nasemadolobhaneni amaningi amakhulu aseRussia. Izinkulungwane eziningi zabantu zavele zangena emigwaqweni zizwakalisa ukungavumelani kwazo. Isigaba esidume kakhulu sabahlanganyeli abantu abasha. Bangaphezu kuka-7,500 abafundi, abasebenzi kanye nabaphothule eNyuvesi yaseRussia endala iLomonosov Moscow University abasayine incwadi yezikhalazo mayelana nempi. Abafundi bafuna ukuzibona beyingxenye yezwe elikhululekile lentando yeningi, okungenzeka baphucwe lona ngenxa yemigomo kamengameli yokuzihlukanisa. Iziphathimandla zithi iRussia inezinsiza ezidingekayo zokuphila nezikhali ze-athomu ezizozivikela, ngisho nasezimeni zokuhlukaniswa, nomhlaba wonke. Abantu baseRussia abangaphezu kwezigidi ezingu-1 220 basayine incwadi yezikhalazo ethi "NO TO WAR". Amakhethini angawodwa “OKUMELENA NEZIKHALI ZENYUCLEAR” kanye “KUPHIKISANA NEMPI YEGAZI” aqhutshwa nsuku zonke eSt. Petersburg nakwamanye amadolobha aseRussia. Ngesikhathi esifanayo, abasebenzi be-Institute of Atomic Energy eqanjwe Kurchatov eMoscow "basisekela ngokugcwele isinqumo sikaMongameli weRussian Federation sokuqhuba umsebenzi okhethekile wezempi" endaweni yase-Ukraine. Futhi lesi akusona ukuphela kwesibonelo sokusekela ubudlova. Mina nozakwethu enhlanganweni yezemvelo nokuthula siyaqiniseka ukuthi ikusasa lethu liphukile eRussia nase-Ukraine.
Ingabe ukuthula neRussia kuyindaba e-Ukraine njengamanje?
YS: Yebo, lolu udaba ngaphandle kokungabaza. UMongameli Zelenskyy wakhethwa ngo-2019 ngenxa yezithembiso zakhe zokumisa impi futhi axoxisane ngokuthula, kodwa wephula lezi zithembiso futhi waqala ukucindezela abezindaba abasekela iRussia kanye nabaphikisayo e-Ukraine, ehlanganisa abantu bonke ukuba balwe neRussia. Lokhu kwaqondana nokuqiniswa kosizo lwezempi lwe-NATO kanye nezinsimbi zenuzi. UPutin wethule owakhe umshini wokuzivivinya zenuzi futhi wacela iziqinisekiso zokuphepha emazweni aseNtshonalanga, okokuqala nje ukungahambelani kwe-Ukraine. Esikhundleni sokunikeza iziqinisekiso ezinjalo, amazwe aseNtshonalanga asekela ukusebenza kwezempi yase-Ukraine eDonbass lapho ukwephulwa komthetho wokumiswa kwanda futhi ezinsukwini ngaphambi kokuhlasela kweRussia izakhamuzi zabulawa futhi zalimala cishe nsuku zonke ezinhlangothini zombili, ngaphansi kokulawulwa nguhulumeni nokungalawulwa nguhulumeni. izindawo.
Kukhulu kangakanani ukumelana nokuthula nezenzo ezingenalo udlame ezweni lakini?
OB: E-Russia, yonke imithombo yezindaba yentando yeningi ezimele ivaliwe futhi yayeka ukusebenza. Inkulumo-ze yempi yenziwa kuzo zonke iziteshi zethelevishini yombuso. I-Facebook ne-Instagram ivinjiwe. Ngokushesha nje ngemva kokuqala kwempi, kwathathwa imithetho emisha emelene namanga futhi “ephikisana nokudelela amasosha aseRussia aqhuba umkhankaso okhethekile e-Ukraine.” Umgunyathi yinoma yimiphi imibono evezwe esidlangalaleni ephikisana nalokho okushiwo kwabezindaba ezisemthethweni. Izijeziso zinikezwa kusukela kunhlawulo enkulu yamashumi ezinkulungwane zama-ruble, ukuya ejele iminyaka engu-15. UMongameli umemezele ukulwa "nabakhapheli kazwelonke" abavimbela ukuqaliswa kwezinhlelo zakhe zase-Ukraine. UMnyango Wezobulungisa Wenhlangano YaseRussia uyaqhubeka nokunikeza isimo “se-ejenti yangaphandle” ezinhlanganweni zezemvelo nezamalungelo abantu ezisebenzisana nozakwethu bakwamanye amazwe. Ukwesaba ukucindezelwa kuba isici esibalulekile sokuphila eRussia.
Ngabe intando yeningi ibukeka kanjani e-Ukraine? Ingabe kukhona ukufana?
YS: Ngomhla zingama-24 kuNhlolanja wezi-2022 uPutin waqala ukuhlasela kwakhe okunonya nokungekho emthethweni okuhloswe ngakho, njengoba esho, ekudelweni nasekususweni kwezempi kwe-Ukraine. Ngenxa yalokho, kokubili iRussia ne-Ukraine zibonakala zigcwele impi futhi ziya zifana namaNazi, futhi akekho ozimisele ukukushintsha. Ama-autocrats abusayo kanye namaqembu abo kuwo womabili la mazwe azuza ngempi, amandla abo ayaqina futhi maningi namathuba okuzuza komuntu siqu. Oklebe baseRussia bayahlomula ngokuhlukaniswa neRussia ngamazwe ngamazwe njengoba kusho ukugqugquzelwa kwamasosha kanye nazo zonke izinsiza zomphakathi sezisezandleni zabo. ENtshonalanga, inkimbinkimbi yokukhiqiza amasosha yonakalise uhulumeni kanye nezinhlangano zomphakathi, abathengisi bokufa bathola inzuzo enkulu ngosizo lwezempi oluya e-Ukraine: iThales (umphakeli wezikhali ezicitshwayo zeJavelin e-Ukraine), uRaytheon (umnikezeli wemicibisholo ye-Stinger) kanye no-Lockheed Martin (ukusatshalaliswa kwamajethi ) zibe nokukhuphuka okukhulu kwenzuzo kanye nenani lemakethe yamasheya. Futhi bafuna ukuzuza inzuzo eyengeziwe ngokubulala nokubhubhisa.
Yini oyilindele ezinhlanganweni zokuthula emhlabeni nakubo bonke abantu abathanda ukuthula?
OB: Kuyadingeka ukuthi abahlanganyeli be-"Movement for Peace" bahlangane nabezemvelo, izishoshovu zamalungelo abantu, ukulwa nempi, ukulwa ne-nuclear nezinye izinhlangano ezithanda ukuthula. Izingxabano kufanele zixazululwe ngezingxoxo, hhayi impi. UKUTHULA kuhle kithi sonke!
Yini umuntu olwela ukuthula angayenza ukuze kube nokuthula lapho izwe lakhe lihlaselwa?
YS: Okokuqala, i-pacifist kufanele ihlale i-pacifist, iqhubeke nokuphendula ubudlova ngokucabanga okungenalo ubudlova nezenzo. Kufanele usebenzise yonke imizamo yokufuna nokusekela izixazululo ezinokuthula, umelane nokukhuphuka, unakekele ukuphepha kwabanye kanye nawe. Bangane abathandekayo, ngiyabonga ngokunakekela isimo sase-Ukraine. Asakhe ndawonye umhlaba ongcono ongenawo amabutho nemingcele ukuze kube nokuthula nenjabulo yesintu.
Inhlolokhono yenziwa nguReiner Braun (ngezindlela ze-elekthronikhi).
