UTariq Ali: Izityholo zobunqolobi ngokuchasene nowayesakuba yi-PM yasePakistan u-Imran Khan "ziyothusa ngokwenene"

NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Yi le Intando yeninzi Ngoku!, democracynow.org, Ingxelo Yemfazwe Nezoxolo. Ndingu-Amy Goodman, noJuan González.

Ngoku siza kujonga ingxubakaxaka yezopolitiko ePakistan, apho owayesakuba yiNkulumbuso u-Imran Khan abekwe ityala phantsi koMthetho wasePakistan ochasene nobuGqwirha. Kukunyuka kwamva nje phakathi kwelizwe lasePakistani kunye noKhan, osadume kakhulu emva kokugxothwa kwakhe e-ofisini ngo-Epreli kwinto ayichaza njengohlobo “lwenguqu yolawulo oluxhaswa yi-US.” UKhan uqhubeke nokubamba iindibano ezinkulu kulo lonke elasePakistan. Kodwa ngempelaveki, abasemagunyeni ePakistan bavalile izikhululo zikamabonwakude ukuba zisasaze iintetho zakhe ngqo. Ke, ngoMvulo, amapolisa amtyhola ngezityholo zokulwa nobunqolobi emva kokuba enze intetho etyhola amapolisa ngokungcungcuthekisa omnye wabancedisi bakhe abasondeleyo owayevalelwe ngezityholo zokuvukela urhulumente. Kungekudala emva kokubhengezwa kwezi zityholo, amakhulu abalandeli bakaKhan bahlanganisana ngaphandle kwendlu yakhe benqanda ukuba amapolisa angambambisi. Kamva ngoMvulo, uKhan waphendula izityholo kwintetho e-Islamabad.

I-IMRAN UKHAN: [iguqulelwe] ndandibabizele ukuba ndibathathele amanyathelo asemthethweni, amapolisa nomantyi wenkundla, yaye urhulumente wabhalisa ityala lobugrogrisi nxamnye nam. Okokuqala, benza into ephosakeleyo. Xa sisithi siza kuthatha amanyathelo asemthethweni, bandibhalisa ityala baze bakhuphe nencwadi egunyazisa ukuba ndibanjwe. Ibonisa ntoni le nto? Akukho lawulo lomthetho kwilizwe lethu.

NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ke, sidityaniswe ngoku eLondon nguTariq Ali, umbhali-mbali waseBritani wasePakistan, umlweli, umenzi wefilimu, kwikomiti yokuhlela Uhlaziyo olutsha lwesobunxele, umbhali weencwadi ezininzi, kuquka Imvukelo ePakistan: Uthotywa njani phantsi kolawulo lobuzwilakhe, eyaphuma kwiminyaka embalwa edlulileyo, kwaye Ngaba iPakistan ingasinda? Incwadi yakhe yamva nje, UWinston Churchill: Amaxesha akhe, amatyala akhe, siza kuthetha ngayo komnye umboniso. Kwaye sikwathetha ngale nto phakathi kwezi zikhukula zinkulu zasePakistan, kwaye sizakufika kuloo nto ngomzuzu.

Tariq, thetha ngokubaluleka kwezityholo zobunqolobi ku-Imran Khan, owagxothwayo kwinto ayibiza ngokuba lutshintsho lolawulo oluxhaswa yi-US.

TARIQ ALI: Ewe, u-Imran wayeyicaphukisile iMelika. Akukho mathandabuzo ngokupheleleyo ngaloo nto. Wayetshilo - xa uKabul ewa, wathi esidlangalaleni, njengenkulumbuso, ukuba abantu baseMelika benza isiphithiphithi esikhulu kweli lizwe, kwaye esi sisiphumo. Ke, emva kokuba imfazwe yaseUkraine yavezwa nguPutin, u-Imran wayeseMoscow ngaloo mini. Akakhange athethe ngayo, kodwa wothuswa kukuba yenzeke ngexesha lotyelelo lwakhe lwaseburhulumenteni. Kodwa wala ukuxhasa izohlwayo ngokuchasene neRussia, kwaye wagxekwa ngaloo nto, waphendula wathi, "I-India ayizixhasi izohlwayo. Kutheni ungabagxeki nje? I-China ayizixhasi. Uninzi lwehlabathi, iHlabathi leSithathu, alibaxhasi. Kutheni undiqumbela?” Kodwa wayesele eyinkathazo. Ukuba iUnited States ibeka kakhulu kuyo, asazi. Kodwa ngokuqinisekileyo, umkhosi, ogqwesileyo kwezopolitiko zasePakistan, kufuneka ukuba ucinge ukuba ukukholisa i-United States, kungcono ukumsusa. Kwaye akukho mathandabuzo ukuba ngaphandle kwenkxaso yomkhosi ekususweni kwakhe, ngengazange agxothwe.

Ngoku, into ababeyicinga okanye ababeyicingela yayikukuba u-Imran wayeza kuphulukana nalo lonke udumo, kuba urhulumente wakhe wenze iimpazamo ezininzi. Kwakukho intetho yorhwaphilizo ngumfazi wakhe, njl. njl. Emva koko kwenzeka into ngoJulayi eyashukumisa ukusekwa, oko kukuthi kwiphondo elinabantu abaninzi nelibalulekileyo kweli lizwe, elibalulekileyo ngokwamandla, iPunjab, kwakukho i-20 Unyulo lovalo-zihlalo zepalamente, kwaye u-Imran uphumelele i-15 kulo. Ngewayephumelele amanye amabini, ukuba itheko lakhe beliququzelelwe ngcono. Ngoko ke loo nto yayibonisa ukuba inkxaso yakhe, ukuba ikhe yaphuncuka, iyabuya, kuba abantu bavele bothuswa ngurhulumente othathe indawo yakhe. Kwaye, ndicinga ukuba, kwanika u-Imran ithemba elininzi lokuba angaluphumelela unyulo jikelele oluzayo ngokulula. Kwaye waya kukhenketho olukhulu lwelizwe, apho kwakukho amacandelo amabini: Umkhosi ubeke abezopolitiko abonakeleyo, kwaye i-United States iququzelele utshintsho lolawulo. Kwaye enye yeengoma ezinkulu kuyo yonke le miboniso, eyayinamakhulu amawaka abantu kuyo, yayisithi “Lowo ungumhlobo wase-United States ngumngcatshi. Umngcatshi.” Yayiyingoma enkulu leyo kunye nengoma eyayithandwa kakhulu ngelo xesha. Ngoko, ngokungathandabuzekiyo, uye wazakhela kwakhona.

Kwaye ndicinga ukuba seso siganeko, uAmy, ngoJulayi, sokubonisa inkxaso ethandwayo ngonyulo, xa engekho nokuba segunyeni, oko kwabakhathazayo, ngoko baye benza iphulo lokulwa naye. Ukumbamba phantsi kwemithetho echasene nobunqolobi yinto eyothusa ngokwenene. Ubahlasele abagwebi kwixesha elidlulileyo. Wayehlasela amanye amagunya enkundla kwintetho yakhe ngenye imini. Ukuba ufuna ukumbamba, unako - ungamtyhola ngokudelela inkundla, ngoko ke angahamba alwe naloo nto, kwaye siza kubona ukuba ngubani ophumelelayo, kwaye kweyiphi inkundla. Kodwa endaweni yoko, bambambile phantsi kwemithetho yobunqolobi, nto leyo exhalabisayo, ukuba injongo kukumkhweba kunyulo oluzayo ngenxa yezityholo ezibizwa ngokuba ngabanqolobi, lo nto izakudala isiphithiphithi elizweni. Akanaxhala kakhulu okwangoku, kwinto endinokuyiqokelela.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Kwaye, Tariq, bendifuna ukukubuza - ngenxa yoqhanqalazo olukhulu oluthe lwaqhambuka ngokumxhasa, ngaba ingqiqo yakho ukuba nabantu abanokuthi babemchasile u-Imran Khan bamanyana emva kwakhe, ngokuchasene nokusekwa kwezopolitiko kunye nomkhosi. ilizwe? Emva kwayo yonke loo nto - kunye nokubakho kokuphazamiseka okuqhubekayo kwilizwe elikwilizwe lesihlanu ngobukhulu emhlabeni malunga nabemi.

TARIQ ALI: Ewe, ndicinga ukuba banexhala. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba u-Imran wenze intetho ebaluleke kakhulu kwintetho yakhe kwimpelaveki. Wathi, “Ungalibali. Mamela iintsimbi ezikhatywayo eSri Lanka, ”apho kwabakho uqhankqalazo olukhulu olwaluhleli kwibhotwe likamongameli lwaza lwakhokelela ekubeni umongameli asabe kwaza kwenziwa utshintsho oluthile. Uthe, "Asihambi ngaloo ndlela, kodwa sifuna unyulo olutsha, kwaye siyalufuna kwakamsinya." Ngoku bathi bakuba bebambe iintambo, urhulumente omtsha wathi siza kuzama ukuba nonyulo ngoSeptemba okanye ngo-Oktobha. Ngoku baluhlehlisele u-Agasti kulo nyaka uzayo olunyulo.

Kwaye, uJuan, kufuneka uqonde ukuba kwangaxeshanye, urhulumente omtsha ujongana ne IMF kuthetha ukunyuka kwamaxabiso okukhulu kweli lizwe. Kukho abantu abaninzi ngoku abangakwaziyo ukuthenga ukutya kwelizwe. Iye yabiza kakhulu. Ixabiso legesi liye landa. Ngoko ke, kubantu abahluphekayo, abasele benombane omncinci, yintlungu epheleleyo. Kwaye abantu, ngokuqinisekileyo, batyhola urhulumente omtsha, kuba lo ngurhulumente owenze isivumelwano kunye IMF, yaye imeko yezoqoqosho yeli lizwe imbi kakhulu. Kwaye oku kuye kwakhulisa ukuthandwa kuka-Imran, ngaphandle kwamathandabuzo. Ndithetha nje, intetho ithi ukuba bekukho unyulo oluza kubanjwa kwiinyanga ezine ezizayo, wayeza kutshayela ilizwe.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Kwaye ukhankanye indima yomkhosi kwezopolitiko zasePakistan. Yayiyintoni ubudlelwane bomkhosi ku-Imran ngaphambi kokuba kuqhambuke le ngxaki, ngaphambi kokuba agxothwe njengenkulumbuso?

TARIQ ALI: Kaloku, bamvuma ukuba angene egunyeni. Akukho mathandabuzo ngaloo nto. Ndiyathetha, kunokuba neentloni kuye nakubo ngoku kwimeko ekhoyo kweli lizwe, kodwa akukho mathandabuzo amancinci ukuba umkhosi wawusemva kwakhe xa wangena kulawulo. Kodwa njengabanye abezopolitiko, usebenzise amandla akhe waza wazakhela isiseko esikhulu kweli lizwe, elalifudula liphelele kurhulumente, urhulumente wasePakhtunkhwa, urhulumente, urhulumente onyuliweyo kumantla elizwe, kumda Afghanistan, kodwa ngoku isasazeka, nakwiindawo zaseKarachi. Kwaye iPunjab ngoku ibonakala iyinqaba, enye ye-PTI's - iqela lika-Imran - iinqaba eziphambili.

Ke, umkhosi kunye nezopolitiko azikho ngendlela yazo. Ndiyathetha, bacinga ukuba banokudala uzinzo olutsha kunye nabazalwana bakaSharif. Ngoku, yintoni enomdla, uJuan, kwaye ayizange ixelwe kukuba ngaphambi kokuba uShehbaz Sharif, uyazi, ukungena ngentshiseko kwizihlangu zika-Imran, kwakukho ukuhlukana, ndixelelwa, phakathi kwabazalwana ababini. Umkhuluwa wakhe, uNawaz Sharif, owayesakuba yinkulumbuso, oseBritani, ekucingelwa ukuba uyagula, ngenxa yokuba wakhululwa entolongweni ngezityholo zorhwaphilizo ukuze aye kuqhaqho eBritani - uneminyaka ethile elapha - wayechasene noShehbaz. ukuza kuthatha isikhundla. Uthe, "Kungcono siye kunyulo jikelele olukhawulezileyo ngelixa u-Imran engathandwa, kwaye singayiphumelela loo nto, emva koko siya kuba neminyaka ezayo." Kodwa umninawa wakhe wamedlula yena okanye nantoni na, nangona kunjalo bazilungisa ezi mpikiswano, kwaye bathi, “Hayi, hayi, sifuna urhulumente omtsha ngoku. Imeko imbi.” Ewe, esi sisiphumo.

NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Bendifuna nokukubuza malunga nezikhukula ezimanyumnyezi ezenzeka ePakistan, eTariq. Kwezi nyanga zimbini zidlulileyo, iimvula ezinamandla ngokungaqhelekanga zikhokelele ekuswelekeni kwabantu abamalunga nama-800, izikhukula zonakalisa amakhaya angaphezu kwama-60,000. Nanga amanye amazwi abantu abasinde kwizikhukula.

AKBAR BALOCH: [iguqulelwe] Sikhathazeke kakhulu. Abadala bethu bathi abakhange bazibone iimvula nezikhukhula ezinje kule minyaka ingamashumi amathathu ukuya kumashumi amathathu anesihlanu edlulileyo. Siyaqala ukubona iimvula ezinkulu ngolu hlobo. Ngoku sixhalabile kukuba, makube lee, olu hlobo lwemvula enkulu lusenokuqhubeka kwixesha elizayo, kuba imo yezulu iyatshintsha. Ke ngoku soyika kakhulu ngale nto. Sikhathazeke ngokwenene.

I-SHER MOHAMMAD: [iguqulelwe] Imvula iyitshabalalisile indlu yam. Imfuyo yam yatshabalala yonke, amasimi am ephanzile. Kuphela kwasindiswa ubomi bethu. Akukho nto yimbi iseleyo. Ndiyambulela uThixo kuba usindise ubomi babantwana bam. Ngoku sikwinceba ka-Allh.

MOHAMMAD AMINE: [iguqulelwe] Ipropathi yam, indlu yam, yonke into yayikhukulisekile. Ngoko sazimela kuphahla lwesikolo sikarhulumente iintsuku ezintathu nobusuku obuthathu, malunga nama-200 abantu abanabantwana. Sahlala phezu kophahla iintsuku zantathu. Xa amanzi ewuthile kancinane, sabakhupha abantwana eludakeni saza sahamba iintsuku ezimbini de saya kufika kwindawo ekhuselekileyo.

NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ke, inokuba kufutshane newaka labantu abafileyo, amashumi amawaka agxothiwe. Ukubaluleka kolu tshintsho lwemozulu ePakistan kwaye luzichaphazela njani iipolitiki zelizwe?

TARIQ ALI: Ichaphazela ezopolitiko kwihlabathi liphela, Amy. Kwaye iPakistan, ewe, ayinjalo - ayinakukhutshelwa ngaphandle, kwaye ayiqhelekanga. Kodwa yintoni eyenza iPakistan, ukuya kuthi ga kwinqanaba elithile, yahlukile kukuba izikhukhula kwesi sikali - yinyani into ayithethileyo umntu - ukuba khange babonwe ngaphambili, ngokuqinisekileyo hayi kwinkumbulo ephilayo. Kubekho izikhukula, kwaye rhoqo, kodwa hayi kulo mlinganiselo. Ndiyathetha, nesixeko saseKarachi, esesona sixeko sikhulu semizi-mveliso kweli lizwe, esingazange sabona zikhukula ngaphambili, babekho - isiqingatha sesixeko sasiphantsi kwamanzi, kubandakanya neendawo apho kuhlala abantu abakumgangatho ophakathi kunye nophezulu. . Ngoko, ibe ngumothuko omkhulu.

Umbuzo ngulo - kwaye lo ngumbuzo ovela ngalo lonke ixesha kukho inyikima, isikhukhula, intlekele yendalo: Kutheni iPakistan, oorhulumente abalandelelanayo, umkhosi kunye nabahlali, bengakwazi ukwakha isiseko sentlalo, umnatha wokhuseleko kubantu abaqhelekileyo. abantu? Ilungile kwizityebi kunye nabami kakuhle. Banako ukusaba. Bangalishiya ilizwe. Bangaya esibhedlele. Banokutya okwaneleyo. Kodwa kuninzi lwelizwe, oku akunjalo. Kwaye oku kuqaqambisa ingxaki yentlalo ebidla ngokutya ePakistan, kwaye ngoku iye yaphanziswa ngakumbi IMF iimfuno, ezidlakaza ilizwe. Ndithetha ukuthi, kukho ukungondleki kwiindawo ezithile zelizwe. Izikhukula zatshabalalisa iBalochistan, enye yezona ndawo zihlwempuzekileyo zelizwe kunye nephondo elingazange lihoywe kangangamashumi eminyaka ngoorhulumente abalandelelanayo. Ngoko ke, uyazi, sihlala sithetha kwaye sisebenza malunga neentlekele zendalo ezithile okanye iintlekele zemozulu, kodwa urhulumente kufuneka amise ikhomishini yokucwangcisa ngokwenene ukucwangcisa ukwakha isakhiwo sentlalo, iziseko zentlalo kwilizwe. Oku akusebenzi nje ePakistan, kunjalo. Namanye amazwe amaninzi kufuneka enze okufanayo. Kodwa ePakistan, imeko iyinkangala, kuba izityebi azikhathali. Abakhathali nje.

NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: UTariq Ali, ngaphambi kokuba sihambe, sinemizuzwana ye-30, kwaye bendifuna ukukubuza malunga nemeko kaJulian Assange. Sisanda kwenza icandelo kumagqwetha kaJulian Assange kunye neentatheli ezimangalela CIA kunye noMike Pompeo buqu, owangaphambili CIA umlawuli, ngokusebenza kunye nenkampani yaseSpain kwi-bugging ye-ambassy, ​​ividiyo, i-audioing, ukuthatha iikhomputha zeendwendwe kunye neefowuni, ukuzikhuphela, ukuphazamisa ilungelo lommeli-mxhasi. Ngaba oku kungamisa ukukhutshwa kukaJulian Assange, ojongene nezityholo zobuntlola e-United States?

TARIQ ALI: Ewe, kufanele, Amy - yimpendulo yokuqala leyo - kuba ibiyimeko yezopolitiko kwasekuqaleni. Inyani yokuba amagosa aphezulu axoxisane ngokumbulala u-Assange okanye hayi, kwaye lilizwe apho urhulumente wase-Bhritane kunye nenkundla yezomthetho, besebenzisana, bambuyisela, besithi ayilotyala lezopolitiko, eli ayiloxhoba lezopolitiko. , iyothusa kakhulu.

Ewe, ndiyathemba ukuba olu lingo luzisa ezinye iinyani phambili kwaye inyathelo elithile liyathathwa, kuba oku kukhutshwa ngenene kufanele kuyekwe. Sonke siyazama, kodwa abezopolitiko, ngokubanzi, kwaye ubukhulu becala bamaqela omabini - kunye nenkulumbuso entsha yase-Australia kwiphulo lonyulo bathembise ukuba baya kwenza okuthile. Umzuzu nje eba yinkulumbuso, uvele wancama ngokupheleleyo e-United States-engamangalisiyo. Kodwa okwangoku impilo kaJulian inkenenkene. Sikhathazeke kakhulu ngendlela aphathwa ngayo entolongweni. Akufunekanga abe sentolongweni, nokuba uzakukhutshelwa ngaphandle. Ke, ndiyathemba okona kulungileyo kodwa ndoyika kakhulu, kuba umntu akufuneki abe nenkohliso malunga nale nkundla.

NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: UTariq Ali, umbhali-mbali, umlweli, umenzi wefilimu, umbhali we Imvukelo ePakistan: Uthotywa njani phantsi kolawulo lobuzwilakhe. Incwadi yakhe yamva nje, UWinston Churchill: Amaxesha akhe, amatyala akhe.