Masibuyise imali yomkhosi

ukusuka Ukuthintela, UJuni 18, 2020

Olu luhlobo lokubhaliweyo kwesiqendu se IPodcast eyakhiweyo Inomcebisi womgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle u-Bernie Sanders uMatt Duss kunye no-Mehdi Hasan.

IUNITED STATES ineyona bhajethi inkulu yasemkhosini kwezomhlaba, ebala iipesenti ezili-15 zayo yonke imali echithelwayo federal kunye phantse nesiqingatha sayo yonke imali echithwayo. Abongameli bawo omabini amaqela basilele ukuzisa uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lwePentagon. U-Sen. Bernie Sanders wase Vermont uye waba lelinye lizwi elikhulu kwiCongress eliphikisayo ukusikeka okukhulu; Umcebisi wakhe omkhulu kwezangaphandle, uMat Duss, ujoyina uMehdi Hasan ukwenza ityala lokubuyiselwa imali kwiPentagon.

UMat Duss: Le mfazwe yeHlabathi kuHlaselo, egcina i-United States isemfazweni yehlabathi, iyonakalisile idemokrasi yethu, ikhokelele kwezopolitiko ezothusayo kakhulu, kwaye ivelise oko sikubonayo ezitratweni zethu-kwavelisa uDonald Trump!

[Ukudluliselwa kwemculo.]

UMehdi Hasan: Wamkelekile kwiDeconstative, ndinguMehdi Hasan.

Kule veki iphelileyo sincokole ngamapolisa Kule veki: Ngaba lixesha lokuba ubuyise imali yomkhosi?

MD: Ngaba singabagcina abantu bethu bekhuselekile ngokungaphantsi kwemali esiyichitha ngoku? Ngokuqinisekileyo sinako.

MH: Lundwendwe lwam namhlanje, uMat Duss, umcebisi womgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle oaphezulu kuSenator Bernie Sanders.

Kodwa ngaba ukusika uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lwemfazwe lwaseMelika, kuthatha i-Pentagon enamandla onke, iphupha lombhobho eliqhubayo okanye umbono ogama lakhe lifikile?

Masenze ikhwizi ngokukhawuleza.

Umbuzo 1: Sesiphi esona sakhiwo sikhulu ehlabathini?

Impendulo: IPentagon. Iinyawo ezisithandathu nesiqingatha seemitha zeenyawo zommgangatho uphela-kathathu ubukhulu bendawo yomgangatho weSakhiwo soMbuso. Mkhulu.

Umbuzo 2: Ngubani okanye ngowuphi umqeshi omkhulu emhlabeni?

Impendulo: Kwakhona, iPentagon, inabasebenzi abaphantse babe zizigidi ezintathu. Umkhosi waseTshayina ungene kwindawo yesibini unabasebenzi abangaphezu kwezigidi ezibini, kwaye iWalmart ikwindawo yesithathu.

Umbuzo 3: Leliphi isebe lezokhuselo elineyona bhajethi yomkhosi enkulu ehlabathini?

Impendulo: Uyikhuphele, iSebe lezoKhuselo lase-US, iPentagon!

Ewe, inkulu phantse kuyo yonke indlela onokucinga ngayo-ngaphaya kokukhulu. Uhlahlo-lwabiwo-mali lomkhosi wase-US ngoku limi kwi- $ 736 yezigidigidi, okuthetha ukuba iPentagon ichitha imali eninzi ekukhuseleni njengoko amazwe ali-10 alandelayo ehlabathi adibene- edityanisiwe! Ngapha koko, phantse ezine kwisine ngasinye esichitha emkhosini, kwilizwe jikelele, nyaka ngamnye, sichithwa kwimikhosi yase-US. Yinto ehlekisayo!

Iindaba zeendaba: “Rhola imali yamapolisa” umkile kuqhankqalazo oluya kumxholo onzima wengxoxo zomgaqo-nkqubo.

MH: Sithetha kakhulu kwezi ntsuku malunga nokuhlawulwa kwemali amapolisa, kwaye kufanelekile. Ngaba ayilixesha lokuba sithethe ngokubuyisa imali kwiPentagon, ukubuyisela imali emkhosini?

Njengakwinkcitho yamapolisa, i-US ikwiqela lemidlalo elisebenzisa umkhosi. Njengokuba kunjalo kwinkcitho yamapolisa, inkcitho yasemkhosini ihlutha abantu baseMelika imali enokuthi ichithwe kwenye indawo.

IWashington Post yanikela ingxelo kulo nyaka uphelileyo ukuba ukuba i-US ichithe inani elifanayo le-GDP yayo kwezokuzikhusela njengoko uninzi lwamazwe aseYurophu enza, "inokuxhasa umgaqo-nkqubo wokukhathalela abantwana, yongeze i-inshurensi yezempilo kubemi baseMelika abamalunga nezigidi ezingama-30. zibonelela ngotyalo-mali olukhulu kulungiso lwezibonelelo zelizwe. ”

Kwaye olu ayilulo uhlobo lwentsalela, inkululeko yenkululeko yentando yesininzi - umbono wokusika inkcitho emkhosini kunye nokusebenzisa imali ukuxhasa ezinye, izinto ezingcono, ezinobundlobongela. Nantsi indlela umongameli wase-Riphabhlikhi uDwight Eisenhower, owayesakuba ngumphathi ophezulu, ngendlela, awayibeka ngayo kwintetho yakhe ethi "Ithuba loxolo" ngo-1953:

UMongameli Dwight D. Eisenhower: Yonke imipu eyenziweyo, yonke imfazwe eyasungulwa, onke amatye axhonyiweyo abonakalisa, okokugqibela, ubusela kwabo balambayo kwaye abondli, abo babandayo nabanganxibi.

MH: Kwileta yakhe yokugibela ngo-1961, u-Eisenhower walumkisa ngokuchasene namandla kunye negunya lezomkhosi wezomkhosi wase-US osoloko enyanzelisa inkcitho yezokhuseleko-kunye nemfazwe engaphezulu:

I-DDE: Kumabhunga korhulumente, kufuneka sikulumkele ukufunyanwa kweempembelelo ezingafunekiyo, nokuba zifunwa okanye azifunwanga, ngumatshini-wezomveliso.

MH: Kodwa izilumkiso zika-Ike zawa ezindlebeni ezingevayo. Ukwahlulahlulwa koxolo obekufanele ukuba kubangelwe kukuphela kweMfazwe ebandayo akuzange kwenzeke. Ngaphantsi kukaGeorge W. Bush safumana iMfazwe yeHlabathi kuHlaselo. Kwaye kusenokwenzeka ukuba u-Barack Obama uza nezaphulelo ezilinganiselweyo kuhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lokuzikhusela kodwa njengoko iphephandaba iAtlantic latshoyo kunyaka ka-2016: "Ngelixesha lobongameli bakhe […] umkhosi wase-US uza kube wabele imali eninzi kumanyathelo ahambelana nemfazwe kunawo kwenziwe phantsi kweBush: iidola ezingama-866 zeerandi phantsi kuka-Obama xa kuthelekiswa neebhiliyoni ezingama-811 zeerandi phantsi kweBush.

Namhlanje, phantsi kukaTrump, i-United States ichitha ngaphezulu komkhosi wayo kunanini na okoko ukususela ngeMfazwe yesibini (II) yeHlabathi, ngaphandle nje kwesihlaselo sokuhlasela kwe-Iraq ekuqaleni kweminyaka yoo-2000. Imfazwe yase-Iraq, ngendlela, ixabise i-US ngaphezulu kweedola ezi-2 zeedola, iMfazwe kwiTerror, xa iyonke, ngaphezulu kweedola ezi-6 zeedola, kunye nohlahlo-lwabiwo mali lwePentagon, kwiminyaka elishumi ezayo, kuqikelelwa ukuba iindleko zingaphezulu kweedola ezi-7 zeedola.

Ngoba? Kutheni le nto ndichitha imali eninzi kwisebe likarhulumente elinokuthi nokuba liphicothwe kakuhle, elingenakho ukwenza amawaka ezigidi zezigidi zeedola kwinkcitho, inoxanduva lobundlobongela obuninzi nokufa emhlabeni jikelele - ngakumbi ukubulawa kwabantu abamnyama kunye abantu abamdaka kwiindawo ezifana neMbindi Mpuma okanye uphondo lwaseAfrika?

Ukuba uyakuxhasa ukubuyisa imali yamapolisa, kunye nomsunguli weqela labaNtu abaNtsundu uPatrisse Cullors walibeka eli tyala ngobuhle nangokuqinisekileyo - kulo mboniso, kwiveki ephelileyo. Ukuba uyakuxhasa ukuxhasa ngemali amapolisa, njengoko ndenzayo, kuya kufuneka uxhase ukubuyisa imali kwiPentagon, ukubuyisa imali emkhosini. Ayibikho ngqondo.

Kwaye ndiyatsho ukuba kungekuphela nje ngenxa yento yonke kaTom Cotton, masithumele amajoni, i-New York Times i-op-ed, okanye inyani yokuba ama-30,000 abaGadi bakaZwelonke kunye namapolisa asemkhosini angama-1,600 asebenzayo nabezomntwana baziswa ukunceda umthetho wasekhaya. ukunyanzeliswa - rhoqo ngogonyamelo - ukurhabula ukubuyela kuqhankqalazo olunxamnye nocalucalulo kwilizwe lonke kwezi veki zidlulileyo.

Ndithi ukubuyisa imali yasemkhosini ngenxa yokuba eli liziko elinobundlobongela e-US, nohlahlo-lwabiwo mali olungaphandle kogcino-mthetho, lizaliswe luhlanga, lizele ngamadoda axhobileyo aqeqeshelwe ukubona uninzi lwabantu abamnyama nabantsundu abadibana nabo phesheya njengesisongelo. .

Khumbula: Iimfazwe zamanye amazwe ukuba umkhosi wase-US awungekhe ubenakho ngaphandle kobuhlanga, ngaphandle kwembono yobuhlanga yehlabathi. Ukuba ufuna ukuqhushumba okanye ukuhlasela ilizwe langaphandle elizaliswe ngabantu abantsundu okanye abantsundu, njengoko umkhosi wase-United States usoloko usenza njalo, kuya kufuneka uqale ubakhwebise abo bantu, ubaphathe ngabantu, ubacebise ukuba babuyela umva abantu abafuna ukusindisa. okanye usindise abantu abafuna ukubulawa.

Ucalucalulo ngokobuhlanga kwaye bekusoloko kuyinxalenye yomgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle wase-US, ongumqhubi ophambili kuyo. Ndikhumbula lo mgca ungxwelerha wenza imijikelezo emva kokuba uRodney King wabethwa ngenzondelelo kwikhamera ngamagosa e-LAPD ngo-1991: "Ukuba i-Melika lelipolisa lehlabathi, ke ilizwe liphela nguRodney King waseMelika."

Okwangoku, unama-200,000 amajoni aseMelika abekwe phesheya kumazwe angaphezu kwe-150. Uneziseko ezingama-800 zangaphambili zemikhosi yaseMelika kumazwe angama-80. Ilungiselelwe nje ukuthelekiswa, amanye amazwe ali-11 kwihlabathi aneziseko kumazwe aphesheya, aneziseko ezingama-70 phakathi kwawo- phakathi kwawo!

Kwaye ubukho bemikhosi yase-United States buye, ewe, buzisa uxolo kunye nocwangco kwezinye iindawo zehlabathi, ndiya kuyivuma loo nto, kunjalo. Kodwa kuzisa ukufa kakhulu kunye nentshabalalo kunye noxinzelelo kwezinye iindawo zomhlaba. Ngokophando olwenziwe yiYunivesithi yaseBrown kulo nyaka uphelileyo, bangaphezulu kwama-800,000, 9 abantu abaye babulawa ngenxa yemfazwe ekhokelwa ziimfazwe zase-US nase-Afghanistan, ePakistan ukusukela nge-11/XNUMX - ngaphezulu kwesithathu kwabemi . Amakhulu amawaka angakumbi abulewe ngokungathangaanga ngenxa yemfazwe ebandakanya umkhosi wase-US - izifo, imiba yogutyulo lwelindle, umonakalo kwiziseko zophuhliso.

Apha e-US, ngasekhohlo ubuncinci, sithetha ngokufanelekileyo malunga nokudubula ngokukhohlakeleyo nangokungenasiphelo kwamapolisa kunye nokubulawa komntu ongenamfazwe. Siyawazi amagama kaWalter Scott, no-Eric Garner, noPhilando Castile, noTamir Rice, kwaye, ewe, ngoku, uGeorge Floyd. Okulusizi kukuba, nangona kunjalo, singawazi amagama amadoda, abafazi nabantwana, ababulawa ngokungekho mthethweni nangomthetho ngumkhosi wase-US ekubulawa kwabantu kwiindawo ezinjengeShinwar, Kandahar, neMaywand e-Afghanistan; okanye iindawo ezinje ngeHaditha, iMahmoudiya, neBalad eIraq. Asazi amagama ama-Afghans awayetshutshiswe kwintolongo ye-Bagram Air Base e-Afghanistan, okanye ama-Iraq athuthumelwa kwintolongo yase-Abu Ghraib e-Iraq.

Abarhafi base-US bahlawula loo ntshutshiso kunye nezo zityholo zokubulawa kwabantu; Siyazihlawulela ezi mfazwe ziqhubekayo, ezingapheliyo- kuhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lobuchwephesha, olonakele kodwa olungapheliyo-kwaye sibuze imibuzo embalwa kakhulu malunga nayo. Unokuphikisa ukuba ukubuyisa imali emkhosini ngumsebenzi ongxamisekileyo kwaye oyimfuneko kunokuhlawula imali yamapolisa- kwaye eli tyala livulekile kwaye livaliwe. Nokuba yeyiphi indlela, ngokokubona kwam, ukuxhasa ngemali amapolisa kunye nokubuyisa imali yomkhosi kufuneka ihambelane.

[Ukudluliselwa kwemculo.]

MH: Ukwathatha uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lwePentagon esibhakabhaka, ebiza ukuncitshiswa kwenkcitho yomkhosi wase-US, yenye yezona zinto zibalulekileyo eWashington DC; Ithetha ukungaphatheki kakuhle edolophini apho uninzi lwabademokhrasi belandelelana emva kweRiphabliki kwaye bavote ngokwenyuswa kwemali yenkcitho, unyaka nonyaka.

Omnye wezopolitiko uvelene nabanye abaninzi ngalo mbandela: UBernie Sanders, uSenator ozimeleyo ovela eVermont, uyimbaleki-phambili kumdyarho wokutyunjwa komongameli weDemokhrasi ngo-2016 nango-2020, ongomnye wamalungu ambalwa eCongress Vota rhoqo ngokuchaseneyo nokunyuka kuhlahlo-lwabiwo mali.

Apha uthetha kunyaka ophelileyo kwindibano ngokuchanekileyo ngalo mbandela:

USenator Bernie Sanders: Kodwa ayisiyo iWall Street kuphela neenkampani zamachiza kunye neenkampani zeinshurensi. Kwaye manditsho ngelizwi malunga nento ethembekileyo kakhulu abantu abathetha ngayo, kwaye yile: Kufuneka sithathe iMikhosi yezoMbane yezoMbane. [Abaphulaphuli bavuyela kunye nehlombe.] Asizukuqhubeka sichitha imali ezibhiliyoni ezingama-700 zeedola ngonyaka [emkhosini]. Sifuna kwaye sifuna ukhuseleko olomeleleyo. Kodwa akufuneki sichithe ngaphezulu kwezizwe ezili-10 ezilandelayo zidibeneyo. [Iimpawu zabaphulaphuli.]

MH: Undwendwe lwam namhlanje nguMati Duss, umcebisi omkhulu wemigaqo-nkqubo yamazwe angaphandle kuSenator Bernie Sanders. UMat unikwe isityholo sokunceda uSenator Sanders ukuba aqine kwimigaqo-nkqubo yakhe yezangaphandle kunye nokucinga malunga ne-2016 kunye ne-2020 yomkhankaso kamongameli, kwaye uthathe inxaxheba ekunyanzeliseni inyathelo elinamandla kurhulumente waseNetanyahu kwa-Israyeli kwimimandla yasePalestina ekuhlalwa kuyo kunye norhulumente wase-Saudi Arabia e-Yemen ngaphezulu iphulo labo lokuqhushumisa ngebhombu. Ungumongameli osisiseko seSiseko soxolo lwaseMpuma Mpuma, umgxeki oqinile wokulwa ngomgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle wase-US, kwaye ke uzimanye nam ngoku usuka ekhaya eWashington, DC.

Matt, enkosi ngokuza kwiDizayiniweyo.

MD: Ndiyakuvuyela ukuba lapha. Enkosi, Mehdi.

MH: Ngaba ucinga ukuba umvoti waseMelika ophakathi uyayazi into yokuba imali yenkcitho yezomkhosi iphantse ibe sisiqingatha sayo yonke inkcitho eUnited States, ukuba iPentagon ichitha ngaphezulu kwezokuzikhusela kunamazwe alishumi alandelayo kwihlabathi elihlangeneyo?

MD: Ndingathi hayi, azizazi iinkcukacha. Ndicinga ukuba bayayazi into yokuba sichitha imali eninzi, kodwa bona - ndicinga ukuba abazi futhi, kwaye le yinto uSenator Sanders wenze umsebenzi omninzi ukutyhubela iminyaka ukucacisa ukuba singaba yintoni Ukuchitha, uyazi, iqhezu lelo nani lokufumana kubantu baseMelika, nokuba ngaba kukuhlala, ukhathalelo lwempilo, imisebenzi -

MH: Ewe.

MD: -Mfundo.

Kwaye ndicinga ukuba yiyo ntetho yena kunye nabanye abaninzi abaqhubela phambili abafuna ukuba nayo ngoku, ngakumbi, njengoko sibona, uyazi, ngokucacileyo kwezi zinyanga zimbalwa zidlulileyo, phambi kwale ngxaki, indlela yotyalo-mali lwethu kwezokhuseleko kumashumi eminyaka adlulileyo zibe zininzi nje iindawo ezingalunganga.

MH: Ngamanye amaxesha ndicinga ukuba abantu baseMelika banokuhoya ingqalelo engakumbi ukuba iSebe lezoKhuselo libuyele ekubeni liCandelo leMfazwe, njengoko lalisaziwa kwade kwangowe-1947 kwaye sinonobhala wemfazwe esikhundleni sokuba ngunobhala wezomkhosi.

MD: Hayi, ndicinga ukuba kukho into kuloo nto. Ndiyathetha, uyazi, ukuzikhusela kunjalo, ewe, ngubani ongafuni ukuzikhusela? Sifanele sizikhusele xa kufuneka; Imfazwe yigama elinolunya ngakumbi.

Kodwa ngakumbi kule minyaka ingamashumi idlulileyo kunye neMfazwe yeHlabathi kuTshutshiso, uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali olukhuselayo, kwaye, ukongeza koku, imisebenzi yangaphandle engxamisekileyo esisiseko, uyazi, ingxowa mali yonyaka eqhubekayo eyenzelwe ukuvumela iSebe lezoKhuselo kwi i-US ukwenza oku kungenela komkhosi ngaphandle kweencwadi, kwaye ndibeke nje ezihlangwini zabantwana nabazukulwana ekufuneka behlawulele.

MH: Ingakanani imigaqo-nkqubo yezangaphandle yamazwe aseMelika, uMat, oqhutywa ngumgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle? Kwaye bungakanani obo bomkhosi oqhutywa bubuhlanga, phakathi kwezinye izinto?

MD: Ewe, ndicinga ukuba kukho iinxalenye ezimbini zalo mbuzo. Zombini zibaluleke kakhulu.

Ndiyacinga, uyazi, ukubuyela, ubuncinci uMongameli Eisenhower, xa wayephuma e-ofisini, elumkisa ngovuyo ngokunyuka kwe- “Military Industrial Complex,” igama awayeyila lona. Kwaye umbono oqhelekileyo yayikukuba ubabone aba basebenzi bezokhuselo besiba namandla kwaye benempembelelo, kwaye olu hlobo, uyazi, iziseko zophuhliso zomgaqo-nkqubo ezikhula zijikeleze iiMelika, uyazi, ukukhula kwendima yehlabathi, ukuba ezi zinto zinomdla ziya kuba nefuthe eliyingozi ngaphezulu Ukudalwa komgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle wase-US kunye nomgaqo-nkqubo wezokhuseleko wase-US, kwaye ndingathi loo nto iyinyani, uyazi, ngendlela emabi kakhulu neyingozi kunokuba ndicinga nokuba u-Eisenhower ngokwakhe woyika.

MH: Ewe.

MD: Uyazi, isiqwenga sesibini soko_mamela, iMelika yasekwa phezu kwayo, uyazi, ngokuyinxenye, uyazi, ngombono wokuphakama okumhlophe. Eli lilizwe elasekwa phezu kwalo, kunye nobukhoboka- obabakhiwe ngamanqwanqwa abantu baseAfrika. Sijongene nale ngxaki ixesha elide; sisajongana nayo.

Sibe nenkqubela phambili, ngaphandle kwamathandabuzo: Intshukumo yamaLungelo oluNtu, ilungelo lokuvota, senze uphuculo. Kodwa inyani yomcimbi yile, oku kuthathwe ngokunzulu kwinkcubeko yaseMelika, kwezopolitiko zaseMelika, kwaye ke oko kwenza ingqiqo yokuba kuya kubonakala kumgaqo-nkqubo wethu wezangaphandle, kumgaqo-nkqubo wethu wokhuselo.

Uyazi, sele utshilo, kukwafanelekile nokuqonda ukuba umkhosi wama-US ngomnye wemizekelo ephumelele ngakumbi kunye neyokuqala yokudityaniswa. Kodwa, ukuphendula umbuzo wakho, ndicinga ukuba sibona ubuhlanga obuninzi buchazwe kumgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle waseMelika kwaye oku kuyabonakala ngakumbi ngeMfazwe yeHlabathi kuTshutshiso, edutyulwa ngezityholo zasendle malunga namaSilamsi, malunga nama-Arabhu, uyazi, woyika ukujongisisa malunga nantoni na - nantoni na, i-Sharia enqwenelekayo, unokubaleka uluhlu, uyazi, ezi, uyazi, ezi ntlobo zebango zilungile kakhulu.

Kwaye ndicinga ukuba le yinto uSenator Sanders athethe ngayo kakhulu. Ukuba ubuyela kwelakhe, iqhekeza alibhala kwiMicimbi yezangaphandle kwelinye ilizwe kunyaka ophelileyo, apho ebethetha ngokuphelisa imfazwe engapheliyo, engapheleli ekupheliseni ungenelelo olukhulu lomkhosi ebesibandakanyeke kulo kumashumi eminyaka edlulileyo, kodwa ukuqonda indlela ukuba, uyazi, le mfazwe yeHlabathi kuHlaselo, igcina i-United States kumlo wehlabathi wokulwa, iyonakalisile inkululeko yethu; kukhokelele kwezopolitiko, zokubandakanyeka okukhulu kunye nokuthathelwa ingqalelo, kwabantu abahlelelekileyo, kwaye ivelise oko sikubonayo ezitratweni zethu, kwavelisa uDonald Trump.

MH: Ewe.

MD: Uyazi, ke ukuqonda ukuba lo, nguye, uDonald Trump yimveliso yezi ndlela, akunguye unobangela wazo.

MH: Kwaye ukuze sicace, kubaphulaphuli bethu, ukhankanye uSenator Sanders. Njengelungu leNdlu, wayeliphandle ekuchaseni imfazwe eIraq ngo-2003. Kodwa wavota ngokuhlaselwa kwe-Afghanistan ngonyaka ka-2001.

MD: Ewe.

MH: -Ekusekunye nathi, umlo wase-Afghan awukapheli, abantu abaninzi baphulukana nobomi babo apho, baqhubeka baphulukana nobomi babo, igazi elininzi kunye nobutyebi, njengoko ibinzana lihamba, belahlekile apho. Ndicinga ukuba uyazisola ngoku, ngoku nditshoyo?

MD: Ewe, wayithetha loo nto kwenye yengxoxo-mpikiswano, apho athi, ngoku, ajonge emva -

MH: Ewe, wancoma uBarbara Lee ngokuba yeyona voti inxamnye nayo.

MD: Ngokuchanekileyo. Kwaye ufanele ukudunyiswa. Wayelilizwi elilodwa elalinokubona kwangaphambili ukuba likwazi [oko] ngokunika abaphathi be-Bush isheke engenanto yokuqhuba umlo ongapheliyo, ukuba ngokwenene sasisiya kwintsimi engafakwanga kwaye iyingozi. Kwaye wayenyanisile malunga noku; USenator Sanders ukwazile oko. Ndicinga ukuba, ngakumbi nangakumbi, abantu ngoku bayayiqonda loo nto.

Ungathi, ngalo mzuzu, emva kwe-9/11, ndicinga ukuba kukho, uyazi, ngokuqinisekileyo ukuzithethelela okuthile, ngokuhamba ngokuchasene ne-al Qaeda, kodwa udale le nkcazo evulekileyo, uyayazi, iMfazwe ngoThuselo, kwaye oku -

MH: Ewe.

MD: - ugunyaziso olungenasiphelo kwaye luchaze ukungabikho kwesiphelo sokufika kwesigunyaziso, lube yintlekele kwilizwe lethu nakuluntu oluninzi kwihlabathi liphela.

MH: Ewe, likho ixesha endikukhumbula ngalo xa i-Afghanistan yayilungile imfazwe kwaye i-Iraq yayiyimfazwe embi.

MD: Kunene.

MH: Kwaye ndiyacinga ukuba ngoku siyayibona into engekhoyo, iminyaka eli-19 kamva, ukuba bobabini babeneemfazwe ezimbi ngeendlela zabo. Ngokoluvo lwakho, Mat, kwaye ubusele ugubungele kwaye usebenza kule nto kule dolophana okwethutyana ngoku, ngubani okanye yintoni eyona nto ibekek 'ityala ngokubekwa komgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle wase-US? Ngaba yimbono ye-hawjik? Ngaba ngabezopolitiko nje abazama ukubonakala beqinile? Ngaba ukubhengeza nguMkhosi wezoMveliso oMkhosini owukhankanyileyo, nguLokheed Martin kunye noRaytheon weli lizwe?

MD: Ewe, ndicinga ukuba konke oku kungasentla. Ndiyathetha, nganye yezo zinto idlala indima yayo. Ndiyathetha, ngokuqinisekileyo, uyazi, besikhe sathetha malunga noMkhosi wezoMveliso wezoMikhosi, uyazi, esinokuthi sandise ukuba uyayazi, kubandakanya iMikhosi yezoMveliso yeTyhuna -Cinga ngeTanki; Uninzi lwezi tanki zokucinga zixhaswa nokuba ngaba ngabakhi bezokhuseleko, yimibutho emikhulu yezizwe ngezizwe -

MH: Ewe.

MD: - okanye, kwezinye iimeko, ngu, uyazi, amazwe angaphandle afuna ukusigcina sibandakanyeka kwingingqi yabo kwaye sibaenzela umsebenzi. Ke yinxalenye yomceli mngeni.

Ndicinga ukuba ngokuqinisekileyo kukho inkalo yezopolitiko, uyazi, ngokulula nje, abezopolitiko boyika ngokwenyani ukubonakala bebuthathaka kukhuseleko okanye babuthathaka kukoyikisa. Kwaye unoluhlobo losasazo lweendaba, olu phiko lwasekhaya olunethiwekhi, olwenzelwe ukucinezela ukuba, ukugcina, uyazi, abezopolitiko, uyazi, kubo, kubo, kwizithende zabo, besoyikela uhlobo Nikeza naluphi na uhlobo olunolunye olunokusetyenziswa, oluncinci.

Kodwa ndicinga ukuba nawe unazo, kwaye ndicinga ukuba bekukho iziqwenga ezimbalwa kakhulu, ezibhalwe kakuhle kule nto: enye yabhalwa nguJeremy Shapiro, kule veki iphelileyo kwiThe Boston Review, kwaye enye yayinguEmma Ashford, waseCato Institute , Kwimicimbi yezangaphandle apapa kwiiveki ezimbalwa ezidlulileyo, ejongene nalo mbandela, uyazi, okubizwa ngokuba yibhloko. UBen Rhode wayila eli gama, kodwa ligama nje eliqhelekileyo ukutsho, uyazi, ubulumko obuqhelekileyo malunga neMelika, uyazi, indima yamandla yehlabathi. Kwaye ndiyacinga ukuba ezi ziqwenga zibini zenza umsebenzi olungileyo wokuzibeka, uyazi, olu luhlobo lwecebo lokuziqhelanisa nelisenza iinkuthazo ezithile kunye nemivuzo kubantu abaluhlobo lokuvelisa le mbono ngaphandle kokucela umngeni kwisiseko esisiseko sokuba i-United Nations. Amazwe kufuneka abekhona kwihlabathi liphela; Kufuneka sibe nemikhosi emiswe kwihlabathi liphela, kungenjalo ihlabathi liza kuwa kwiziphithiphithi.

MH: Kwaye yingxabano ye-bipartisan, kunjalo.

MD: Ngokuchanekileyo.

MH: Njengoko uMlo weTerror wawusenziwa ngokugqabileyo, ngokunjalo. Xa ubona iihelikopta zomkhosi zirhuqa abantu-njengabo kwimimandla yemfazwe- ukubhabha okuphantsi ngaphezulu koqhanqalazo eWashington, DC, ukuzama ukubasasaza ngomyalelo wamagosa aphezulu ePentagon. Ngaba ayisiyiyo tu iMfazwe kaThuselo eza ekhaya, njengoko abanye bethu besilumkisile?

MD: Hayi, ndicinga ukuba ichanekile ngokupheleleyo. Ndiyathetha, ukuba-yile nto, kudala sibona le nto, sizibonile ezi nkqubo, uyazi, unazo, besichitha imali eninzi emkhosini, emkhosini konke oku izixhobo, bayidlulisela kula masebe amapolisa, amasebe amapolisa afuna, afuna ukuwusebenzisa.

Sibona amapolisa enxibe ngoku, uyazi, enxibe iimpahla zasemkhosini ngokupheleleyo, ngokungathi bebejikeleza ezitratweni, uyazi, uFallujah. Singatsho ukuba sifuna ukuba bajikeleze izitalato zeFallujah. Kodwa ewe, ngokugqibeleleyo-siyayibona le Mfazwe kwiTerror isiza ekhaya, sayibona, niyazi, iihelikopta ezikhonkotha ezibonisa [ii] Lafayette Square.

Kwaye, uyazi, mamela, amapolisa aseMelika aba neengxaki ixesha elide. Ndiya kuthetha, iingxaki esizibonayo ngaphezulu, uyazi, imiboniso emva kokubulawa kukaGeorge Floyd, ezi ziingxaki ezihlala phantsi kwaye ubuyela umva, uyazi, amashumi eminyaka, ukuba akukhona iinkulungwane. Kodwa ndicinga ukuba indlela uMfazwe waseTerror uyithethileyo le nto, izise ngokwenene kwinqanaba elitsha neliyingozi kakhulu, kwaye ndicinga ukuba aba baphembeleli kunye nabaqhankqalazi-

MH: Ewe ngu-

MD: - bafanelwe yimali eninzi yetyala lokujonga le micimbi.

MH: Kwaye, yiyo loo nto bendifuna ukwenza umboniso ngesi sihloko namhlanje, kwaye uhlale, ngoba awukwazi nje ukuthetha ngamapolisa kwisitokhwe.

MD: Ewe. Kunene.

MH: I-angle yomkhosi ibaluleke ngokupheleleyo ukuqonda oku.

Ndiyathetha, siye safumana iingxelo zamajoni kumiyo kwiiveki zakutshanje ezilungele ukungenelela ngokuchasene nabaqhankqalazi, kungekuphela nje neebhanti, kodwa nemipu ephilayo. Ayiloyondaba inkulu njani le, ndiyabuza, isimangalo esikhulu? Ngaba akufuneki ukuba ukuthandwa kwe-Senator Sanders kunye nezinye ii-Democrats eziphezulu kwinkomfa zinyanzelise ukuva oku? Ngaba imikhosi yaseMelika yayiza kubhula umlilo kubemi baseMelika ngezibhombu eziphilayo?

MD: Hayi, mna, ndicinga ukuba kufuneka. Ndicinga ukuba ndithetha ukuba, ukuba sifuna ukuthetha ngendlela iCongress engaphenduli ngayo ngalo mzuzu ngendlela emelwe kukuba, ndithetha ngayo, ukongeza kolu luhlu lwezinto.

MH: Ewe.

MD: Kodwa ndicinga ukuba sikubonile, ndicinga ukuba kubaluleke kakhulu ukubuyela kula mabontshi opapashwe nguTom Cotton kwiNew York Times, ndiyacinga ukuba ikhona -

MH: Thumela iiTroops.

MD: "Thumela iiTroops" -impikiswano esemthethweni malunga nokuba bekufanele ukuba bayipapashe kwasekuqaleni. Olwam uluvo I-New York Times ayifanele inike ukungakhethi kwayo kwezi ntlobo zeengcinga; ukuba ufuna ukwazi ukuba uTom Cotton ucinga ntoni, zininzi iindawo anokuhamba ayipapashe. Akukho mfihlo.

Kodwa ndicinga ukuba impendulo kuloo nto, ukuqonda into awayeyithetha, ukusebenzisa umkhosi wase-US ngokuchasene nabemi baseMelika kwizitrato zaseMelika, ndicinga ukuba uyayiqonda le nto, yonke le mpikiswano ifikelele kude kwizisele.

MH: Ndiyazibuza nje, ngaba le yindlela yokuzama ukufumana amaMelika, amaMelika aqhelekileyo, ukuba athathe imikhosi yomgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle, iimfazwe ezingapheliyo, uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lwePentagon olunobuzaza, ngokubopha oko kwenzekayo ngoku, ezitratweni zawo?

Matt, bendincokola noJamaal Bowman ngenye imini ophethe ingqungquthela nxamnye no-Eliot Engel, onguSihlalo weKomiti yezobuDlelwane bamaKhaya, ndiyazi ukuba ugqityiwe ngumphathi wakho, nguSenator Sanders, phakathi kwabanye. Kwaye mna naye besithetha malunga nokuba kunzima kangakanani ukufumana abavoti ukuba bathathe imiba yemigaqo-nkqubo yamazwe angaphandle - iimfazwe zasemzini, nokuba-nzulu kakhulu. Uninzi lwamaMelika, ngokuqondakalayo, lujolise kwiinkxalabo zekhaya. Ubafumana njani ukuba bathathe umgaqonkqubo wezangaphandle?

MD: [Lihlekile.] Uyazi, njengomntu osebenze kumgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle isithuba esingaphezulu kweshumi leminyaka, oko-oko ngumceli mngeni.

Kwaye ndiyaqonda. Inyani yile, uninzi lwabantu luye-luchaphazeleka yimicimbi esondeleyo kubo. Kusengqiqweni kwaphela oko. Ke ewe, ukufumana iindlela zokuthetha ngomgaqo-nkqubo wasemzini ngendlela enokuthi uthethe, uyazi, abantu apho bakhoyo, uyazi, kubalulekile. Kodwa kwangaxeshanye, ngeli xesha ndivumelana nawe ukuba masizame ukusebenzisa lo mzuzu kwaye siqonde indlela eza kuthi ngayo iMfazwe ngeTerror apha ekhaya kwizitrato zethu, nathi asifuni kuphazamisa, uyazi, ezona ngxaki zinzulu kakhulu zokuqaqamba okumhlophe kunye nobuhlanga ezibonakala kwaye, uyazi, eziqhuba olu gonyamelo.

MH: Ayisiyongxaki na, ngokuhlabayo, ukuba uninzi lwabavoti umgaqo-nkqubo wasemzini yinto ekude kwaye ayisiyi ngokukhawuleza, njengoko usitsho; Uninzi lwabezopolitiko abonyuliweyo, nangona kunjalo, umgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle kunye nokhuselo ubonwa ikakhulu nge-prism yekhaya, ngohlobo, uyazi, imisebenzi, izivumelwano zokhuselo, iinkxalabo zoqoqosho kumakhaya abo?

Nditsho nomphathi wakho, uBernie Sanders, naye akhuselekanga koku. Uye wagxekwa abanye ngakwicala lasekhohlo lokuxhasa, ngaphezulu kweminyaka, utyalomali lwemikhosi yasemkhosini eVermont ngenxa yemisebenzi. Wayexhasa ukusingatha i-Lockheed Martin's F-35 Fighter Jets, ndiyacinga, ebiza ngaphezulu kweedola ezi-1 zeedola, kwaye isibini sazo sibanjelwe eVermont, kwaye wagxekwa ngokushiyekileyo eVermont ngaloo nto.

Le yingxaki yemiyalezo, akunjalo? Ngomntu wezopolitiko okhethiweyo ofuna ukuya kuchasene nohlahlo-lwabiwo mali lwePentagon, kodwa ekwafuneka ajongane nemisebenzi kunye nezinto ezixhalabisayo zoqoqosho kwilizwe labo?

MD: Ewe, ndicinga indlela thina, uyazi, ukuba uthethe le nto kwaye ndicinga indlela esicinga ngayo inje: Mamela, sifuna ukuzikhusela. Imisebenzi ibalulekile, kodwa ayisiyonto yonke. Ndiyathetha, kukho, uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lumalunga nezinto eziphambili ngokubaluleka.

Ke ngoko ngaba sifuna ukukhuselwa? Ngaba singabagcina abantu bethu bekhuselekile ngokungaphantsi kwemali esiyichithayo ngoku? Ngokuqinisekileyo, sinako. Akukho mfuneko yokuba sichithe ngaphezulu kwamazwe alandelayo ali-11 okanye ali-12 kwihlabathi elihlangeneyo, uninzi lwenzekile ukuba ngamadlelane ethu, ukukhusela ukhuseleko nokuchuma kwabantu baseMelika.

MH: Ewe.

MD: Ke ndicinga ukuba ngumbuzo wokuba zeziphi izinto eziphambili ngokubekwa kwethu, zithini ezona njongo zethu ziphambili zokusetyenziswa komkhosi, kwaye ngaba sibeka ezomkhosi ngaphezulu kunokuba besifanele? Kwaye uSenator uSanders ukholelwa ngokucacileyo ukuba sikhona.

MH: Une. Uye wayicace gca loo nto, nangona abaninzi beya kuphikisana F-35 Fighter Jet ngumzekelo wenkcitho echithiweyo yi-Pentagon.

Uye wacacile kwimicimbi yohlahlo-lwabiwo mali. Uthethe ukuchitha ngaphezulu kwe-10, 11, amazwe ali-12. Ndiyathetha, ukunyuka kwenkcitho ngo-2018, umzekelo, ukwanda ngokwako, ndiyakholelwa, bekukukhulu kunalo lonke uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lwaseRussia- ulonyuso nje.

MD: Kunene. Kunene.

MH: Ke kutheni le nto uninzi lwedemokrasi, Matt, kutheni lungavoti ngokuchasene nezi, rhoqo, ezinkulu, zinyuko ezingafunekiyo kuhlahlo-lwabiwo mali? Kutheni le nto, kutheni uninzi lwabo luqhele ukuhamba nayo?

MD: Ewe, ndicinga ukuba zezizathu ezithile, uyazi, esithethe ngazo ngaphambili, ndicinga ukuba kukho inkxalabo malunga nokupeyintwa njengokuthambile kwezokuzikhusela. Kukho uhlobo olukhulu lwegumbi le-echo apho likhona ngokuchanekileyo ukuba inyanzele abezopolitiko ngaloo myalezo, ukuba -ba babonwa njengabaxhasi zigqibo, niyazi, ikontraki okanye umkhosi.

Kwaye kwakhona, kukho imicimbi ethile evakalayo, ngokuqinisekileyo ngokubhekisele kwimisebenzi, kunye nokuqinisekisa ukuba, uyazi, abasebenzi baseMelika ukuba baphathwe. Kodwa ewe, ndithetha ukuba, ibiyi- ibe lucelomngeni olude. Ibiyinto kaSenator uSanders kangangexesha elide, kuvakala isilumkiso kule nto kwaye bezama ukufumana abantu abaninzi ukuba bavote ngokuchasene noluhlahlo-lwabiwo mali olukhulu. Kodwa uziva ngathi abanye ngoku banikela ingqalelo ngakumbi.

MH: Kuyachukumisa ukubona iiDemocrats, kwelinye icala, i-lambast uTrump njengogunyaziwe, njengommeli wokulinda, njengomntu osemngcwabeni noPutin, emva koko umnike imali ethe kratya ukuze abe ngumkhosi, abe nemali engakumbi yokuqalisa. iimfazwe ezintsha. Kuyinto emnandi nje ukubona loo nto isenzeka, olo hlobo lokungazithembi.

Nje kuhlahlo-lwabiwo mali ngokwalo, inokuba linani elifanelekileyo kuhlahlo-lwabiwo-mali lwase-US. Okwangoku, njengoko sixoxile, kuninzi, kungaphezulu kwamazwe ali-10 alandelayo adibeneyo. Phantse ngama-40 eepesenti inkcitho yezokhuseleko emhlabeni. Ngowuphi umntu ofanelekileyo? Kuba, njengoko usitsho, uSenator uSanders ayisiyonto yokutya. Ukholelwa kukhuseleko olomeleleyo, ukholelwa emkhosini. Nguwuphi ubungakanani obufanelekileyo bomkhosi oqinileyo wase-US, kumbono wakho, kumbono wakhe?

MD: Ewe ngoku, ngoku usebenzela ukwenza izilungiso kuMthetho wokuGunyazisa woKhuseleko kuZwelonke, oku kukuthi kwinkqubo yokuxoxwa ngoku kungangumlinganiso oza kunciphisa, ukuqala, uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lokukhusela ngepesenti ezilishumi.

Ke oko, kungangumawaka angama-75 ezigidi zeedola, a, uyazi, iidola ezingama-700 ezigidi, okanye mhlawumbi, zeedola ezingama-78, ezigidi zeedola ezingama-780 ezigidi, nto leyo inkulu. Kodwa njengendlela yokuqalisa ukuthi, sizakuthatha iipesenti ezilishumi, emva koko siyokutshala imali leyo, siza kudala inkqubo yesibonelelo yokuxhasa imfundo, imisebenzi, izindlu, uluntu ezinayo - ezinepesenti enkulu yabantu abaphila kubuhlwempu. Kwaye sisiqalo, kodwa ikwayindlela yokuthetha oku kulapho kufanele ukuba sibeka phambili. Olu luluntu olufuna le mali.

MH: Ewe, ndiyavuya ukuba uyayenza loo nto. Kwaye ndiyathemba ukuba siza kwenza indlela.

Ke ulungile ekuthatheni uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lomkhosi, kodwa uBernie ubonakala ekuthanda kakhulu ukuxhasa ngemali amapolisa. Uphume ngokuqinileyo ngokuchasene nayo nayiphi na intshukumo yokuphelisa amapolisa. Ngelixa uxelele I-New Yorker kutshanje ukuba, ewe, ufuna, "ukuchaza kwakhona okwenziwa ngamasebe amapolisa," into elungileyo, kubonakala ngathi akafuni kunciphisa uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lwamapolisa nangayiphi na indlela enentsingiselo.

MD: Ewe, ndicinga ukuba indlela asondele ngayo yokuthetha ukuba kufuneka siyichaze kakuhle indima yamapolisa kuluntu lwethu. Ngokuqinisekileyo uye waxhasa kakhulu kwimiboniso; Uyayiqonda into yokuba aba baphembeleli kunye nabaqhankqalazi esitratweni badlale indima ebaluleke kakhulu ekugxininiseni ingqalelo kwelona lizwe, ingxaki enkulu yobundlobongela bamapolisa nodlame lobuhlanga kunye nokuqaqamba okumhlophe ilizwe lethu elisaqhubeka nokulwa nalo.

Ke ubeke uthotho lwezindululo ezizokutshintsha indlela amapolisa asebenza ngayo kuluntu lwawo: ngakumbi ukubekwa kweliso eluntwini kulo, uyazi, uqonda kwaye unika imbuyekezo kuluntu kwaye ubuyisa imali, eneneni, amapolisa abonakalise ukuba anengxaki yokwenyani yokuxhatshazwa. . Ke ngexa engayamkelanga injongo yokubuyisela imali kumapolisa, ndicinga ukuba uyibekile, ukhuphe esinye sezona ziphakamiso zibalulekileyo nesibindi malunga nendlela yokuchaza ngokutsha into eyenziwe ngamapolisa.

MH: Uthethe iinkokheli. Sineenyanga ezimbalwa kude kunyulo lwembali kamongameli. Umtyunjwa waseDemokhrasi owavuma uBernie Sanders, owathi uBernie Sanders wambiza umhlobo wakhe, uJoe Biden, ngomnye wabaphangi abaziwayo kunye nabemi beDemocratic Party. Ubuthethe ngebhloko ngaphambili; Ndicinga ukuba uJoe Biden likhadi eliphethe amalungu ebhlog. Ngaba uyakholelwa ukuba sizakubona naluphi na utshintsho olusuka kuMongameli uBiden, xa kufikwa kumgaqo-nkqubo wezomkhosi, iPentagon-nkqubo yokuqala yezangaphandle xa kusondela ubukho bemikhosi yase-US kwihlabathi liphela?

MD: Ewe, ndicinga ukuba sabona intshukumo ethile evela eBiden.

Ndiya kuthetha, okokuqala, njengoko usitsho, ewe. Ndiyathetha, uBiden, uyazi, sizazi iimbono zakhe kumgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle ubuyela kumashumi eminyaka. Wayexhasa uMlo wase-Iraq; USenator Sanders wayekugxeka oko. Kodwa ndicinga ukuba kufanelekile ukuqaphela ukuba bekukho iimeko ezithile, ngakumbi ngexesha lolawulo luka-Obama, apho iBiten ibililizwi lokuthintela, nokuba sithetha ngogqirha wase-Afghanistan ekuqaleni kobumongameli buka-Obama, ungenelelo lwase-Libya - yajika yajika yaba yinto etshintshileyo esebenza ngurhulumente, eyadala intlekele enkulu eLibya, esekuchaphazela lo mmandla.

Ke ewe, ndiyacinga- mamela, andi-andiyiyo i-sukaricoat. Ndicinga ukuba iBiden yi-hawwit engaphezulu kunenkqubela phambili engathanda ukuyibona. Kodwa ukwanguye umntu endicinga ukuba azibandakanye kule ngxoxo yenzekayo emcimbini, ngakumbi ngokubanzi, kweli lizwe. Iqela lakhe lityikitye ngasese kwaye esidlangalaleni ukuba bafuna ukuthetha namazwi aqhubayo ngomgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle. Kwaye, uyazi, uSenator uSanders -

MH: Ngaba bakwenzile?

MD: Sithethile, ewe. Sithetha rhoqo rhoqo. Kwaye ndiyayibulela loo nto.

Ke kwakhona, ndingathanda ukubona intshukumo engaphezulu kwenye yezi nkqubo. Ndicinga ukuba kufanele ukuba siqonde apho iBiden iye yathutha. Ndicinga ukuba, umzekelo, ukuzibophelela kwinxalenye yeBiden - nakwinxalenye yabo bonke abagqatswa beDemokhrasi, ngendlela - yokujoyina kwakhona iSivumelwano seNyukliya sase-Iran kwaye ndibone ukuba nediplanethi ebanzi ne-Iran njengendlela yokutsala ezantsi kwempikiswano kulo mmandla ukwenza oko kwenziwa nguTrump, nto leyo ibuyisa nje iSaudis ukuba ibekwe kule ngxabano ye-Iran. Ndicinga ukuba kufuneka siyamkele loo nto ngokwenyani. Kodwa kufuneka siqhubeke sisebenza kwaye siqhubeke nokutyhala.

MH: Ngokuqinisekileyo kukho utshintsho olusuka kwiBitenen eSaudi Arabia. Ndicinga ukuba wambiza ngokuba yi-pariah kwenye yeengxoxo.

MD: Kunene. Kunene.

MH: Kwaye uninzi lweeDemocrat zihambele eSaudi Arabia. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba abantu abanjengoBernie Sanders, umphathi wakho, noChris Murphy, usenator waseConnecticut, badlale indima enkulu ekushukumiseni iiDemocrats ezikhethiweyo eSaudi Arabia - kude ne-Saudi Arabia - into entle.

I-Biden kwi-webhusayithi yakhe yephulo ithi "ziphelise ngonaphakade iimfazwe" kwaye uyathetha ngokuzisa uninzi lomkhosi ekhaya, ezizinto ezilungileyo kum. Kodwa ukwatsho kwiwebhusayithi yakhe: "Sinomkhosi owomeleleyo emhlabeni - kwaye njengo-Mongameli, iBiden iya kuqinisekisa ukuba ihlala injalo. Ulawulo lweBiten luzokwenza utyalomali lube yimfuneko ukuxhobisa amajoni ethu kwimiceli mingeni yenkulungwane ezayo, hayi eyokugqibela. "

Ngaba kuvakala ukuba njengo-Mongameli u-Biden uza kwenza nantoni na malunga nokuhlawula uhlahlo-lwabiwo mali lwe-US? Njengoku sowukhankanyiwe, uBernie Sanders obiza ukusika ngepesenti ezilishumi, ngaba uhlobo lwento ka-Biden aluyiyo ngasemva? Ndiyifumanisa inzima loo nto.

MD: Ewe, andazi. Kodwa ndicinga ukuba impendulo kuphela kokuqhubeka nokubacinezela-ndithetha nabo, ndibanike imibono malunga noku. Kodwa kwakhona, xa iBiden ithetha ngemiceli mngeni yenkulungwane yama-21, yiyo loo ngxoxo ekufuneka sikho kuyo. Yeyiphi le miceli mngeni kwaye i-United States ifuna ntoni ukuqhubela phambili ukhuseleko kunye nentuthuko yabantu baseMelika xa sishukuma? Kweli xesha litsha?

Ndiyathetha, sikwexeshana, kwaye ndicinga ukuba kuyakhuthaza. Ndiya kuthetha, okokuqala ebomini bam, ndicinga ukuba, awona mandla makhulu-uninzi lwamandla esiwabona kwimibuzo malunga nemigaqo-nkqubo yaseMelika yamazwe angaphandle, kunye nokhuseleko lwaseburhulumenteni lwaseMelika, luvela kuLobunxele.

Sibona uluhlu lwamaqela amatsha kunye namazwi acela umngeni kwezinye zezi ngcinga, kwaye athi: Mamela, kufuneka sibuyele ukucinga kwakhona ngendlela esijonga ngayo ukuba siluhleli ukhuseleko lwethu, kwaye ndicinga ukuba ubhubhane ubekelele ngokucacileyo oko eyona ndlela ibaluleke kakhulu, njengoko benditshilo, ukubonisa ukuba zonke, uyazi, amakhulukhulu ezigidi zeedola ebesizichitha kwezi, ezi nkqubo zezixhobo, ezingabagcinanga abantu baseMelika bakhuselekile kule ntsholongwane. Kwaye oko kuya kufuna uxolelwaniso olukhulu lwento esithetha ngayo kukhuseleko lwethu.

MH: Ke kuloo nqaku, Matt, umbuzo wokugqibela. Kwakukho isitikha esidala seLizwekazi lezoXolo lweNkululeko yoNkululeko kunye nenkululeko, emva kweMfazwe ebandayo phaya emva kweentsuku ngaphambi kokuba zihambe, ngaphambi kwememes, kodwa yayisisincamathelisi esasithandwa kakhulu.

Kwaye yafunda kwaye ndacaphula, "iya kuba lusuku oluhle xa izikolo zethu zifumana yonke imali eziyifunayo kwaye nomkhosi womoya kufuneka ubambe intengiso yokubhaka ukuze uthenge ibhombu."

MD: [Lihlekile.] Ewe.

MH: Ngaba sisondele kufutshane nalo mhla? Ngaba ucinga ukuba - ngaba ucinga ukuba siza kubona usuku olunje ngexesha lethu lokuphila?

MD: Mhlawumbi ayingathengiswa ngebhaki, nangona ndingathanda ukubona ezinye zezinto abaya kuzenza. Mhlawumbi iya kuba mnandi kakhulu.

MH: [Lihlekile.]

MD: Kodwa hayi, kodwa ndicinga ukuba ngokubanzi - olo luvo lubaluleke kakhulu. Uluvo, luthetha ngezinto eziphambili ngokubaluleka: Ngaba sityala imali eyaneleyo kwimfundo yabantwana bethu? Ngaba sityala imali ngokwaneleyo kukhathalelo lwezezempilo, izindlu, imisebenzi? Ngaba siqinisekisa ukuba abantu baseMelika bangangeni ekungabinamali xa, xa bathe bahlaselwa, uyazi, kwiimeko zonyango ezingalindelekanga ezinje ngomhlaza okanye ezinye izinto ezinjalo?

Ke kwakhona, le yeyona ngxoxo ibalulekileyo sinayo ngoku malunga nokuba zeziphi izinto eziphambili ngokubaluleka? Ngaba siyabakhathalela abantu bethu, njengokuba sibona kwezona zinto zixhalabisayo zokhuseleko?

MH: Mat, kuya kufuneka siyishiya apho. Enkosi kakhulu ngokudibana nam kwiDeconstrafed.

MD: Kuhle ukuba lapha. Enkosi, Mehdi.

MH: Lowo yayinguMat Duss, umcebisi womgaqo-nkqubo wezangaphandle ophezulu kuBernie Sanders, ethetha ngohlahlo-lwabiwo mali lwePentagon kunye nemfuneko yokunciphisa iimfazwe ezingapheliyo kunye nenkxaso-mali yezo mfazwe zingapheliyo. Kwaye jonga, ukuba uyayixhasa inkxaso mali kumapolisa, kuya kufuneka uxhase inkxaso-mali yomkhosi. Zombini ziyahamba kunye.

[Ukudluliselwa kwemculo.]

MH: Ngumboniso wethu lowo! Ukudilizwa yimveliso yokujonga kuqala kwimidiya kunye nokugqobhoza. Umvelisi wethu nguZach Omncinci. Umboniso waxutywa nguBryan Pugh. Umxholo wethu womculo uqanjwe nguBart Warshaw. UBetsy Reed ngumhleli we-Intercept kumthengi omkhulu.

Kwaye ndinguMehdi Hasan. Ungandilandela kwi-Twitter @mehdirhasan. Ukuba awukabinayo, nceda bhalisela umboniso ukuze uve rhoqo ngeveki. Yiya kwi-intercept.com/deconstrafyt ukuze ubhalise kwiqonga lakho lePodcast yokhetho: I-iPhone, i-Android, nokuba yintoni na. Ukuba ubhalisile, nceda ushiyele umlinganiso okanye uphononongo- lunceda abantu bafumane umboniso. Kwaye ukuba ufuna ukusinika ingxelo, sithunyelwe nge-imeyile kule Podcasts@theintercept.com. Enkosi kakhulu!

Siza kubona kwiveki ezayo.