Tariq Ali: Zigawenga Zotsutsana ndi Prime Minister wakale waku Pakistan Imran Khan "Ndizowopsa Kwambiri"

AMY GOODMAN: izi ndi Demokarase Tsopano!, democracynow.org, Lipoti la Nkhondo ndi Mtendere. Ndine Amy Goodman, ndi Juan González.

Tikutembenukira tsopano kuti tiwone zovuta zandale ku Pakistan, pomwe Prime Minister wakale Imran Khan akuimbidwa mlandu pansi pa Anti-Terrorism Act ya Pakistan. Ndiko kukwera kwaposachedwa pakati pa dziko la Pakistani ndi Khan, yemwe adadziwikabe kwambiri pambuyo pochotsedwa paudindo wake mu Epulo pazomwe adafotokoza ngati "kusintha kwaulamuliro wothandizidwa ndi US." Khan akupitiliza kuchita misonkhano yayikulu ku Pakistan. Koma kumapeto kwa sabata, akuluakulu aku Pakistani adaletsa mawayilesi apawailesi yakanema kuulutsa zolankhula zake. Kenako, Lolemba, apolisi adamuimba mlandu wotsutsana ndi uchigawenga atapereka mawu odzudzula apolisi chifukwa chozunza mnzake wapamtima yemwe adamangidwa pamilandu youkira boma. Atangolengeza milanduyi, mazana a otsatira Khan adasonkhana panja panyumba yake kuti apolisi asamugwire. Lolemba pambuyo pake, Khan adayankha milanduyi polankhula ku Islamabad.

IMRAN KHAN: [kumasulira] Ndinawayitana kuti ndiwazengere mlandu, apolisi ndi woweruza milandu, ndipo boma linalembetsa mlandu wauchigawenga wotsutsa ine. Poyamba amachita zinthu zolakwika. Tikamanena kuti tiwazengereze mlandu, amandilembera mlandu ndipo amandipatsa chikalata chondimanga. Kodi izi zikuwonetsa chiyani? Palibe ulamuliro walamulo m'dziko lathu.

AMY GOODMAN: Chifukwa chake, talumikizidwa tsopano ku London ndi Tariq Ali, wolemba mbiri waku Pakistani waku Britain, womenyera ufulu, wopanga mafilimu, pa komiti yokonza za Kukambitsirana Kwatsopano Kumanzere, wolemba mabuku ambiri, kuphatikizapo Kuukira ku Pakistan: Momwe Mungagwetsere Ulamuliro Wankhanza, yomwe idatuluka zaka zingapo zapitazo, ndi Kodi Pakistan Ikhoza Kupulumuka? Buku lake laposachedwa, Winston Churchill: Nthawi Zake, Zolakwa Zake, tikambirana pa pulogalamu ina. Ndipo tikulankhulanso za izi pakati pa kusefukira kwamadzi ku Pakistan, ndipo tifika pamenepo mu miniti imodzi.

Tariq, lankhulani za kufunikira kwa milandu yauchigawenga yomwe Imran Khan adathamangitsidwa, yomwe amatcha kusintha kwaulamuliro wothandizidwa ndi US.

Mtengo wa TARIQ ALI: Imran anali atakwiyitsa United States. Palibe mwamtheradi kukaikira za izo. Anati - pamene Kabul adagwa, adanena poyera, monga nduna yaikulu, kuti aku America adasokoneza kwambiri dzikolo, ndipo izi ndi zotsatira. Kenako, nkhondo ya Ukraine itatulutsidwa ndi Putin, Imran anali ku Moscow tsiku lomwelo. Iye sanayankhepo kanthu, koma anangodabwa kuti zachitika paulendo wake wa boma. Koma adakana kubwezera zilango ku Russia, ndipo adatsutsidwa chifukwa cha izi, pomwe adayankha, "India sikuchirikiza zilangozo. Bwanji osawadzudzula? China sichikuwathandizira. Ambiri a dziko lapansi, Third World, sakuwathandizira. N’chifukwa chiyani ukundiukira?” Koma iye anakhala wosokoneza. Kaya United States idayika zochulukira mu izo, sitikudziwa. Koma ndithudi, asilikali, omwe ali ochuluka kwambiri mu ndale za Pakistani, ayenera kuti anaganiza kuti kukondweretsa United States, kumuchotsa bwino. Ndipo n’zosakayikitsa kuti popanda thandizo la asilikali pomuchotsa, sakanachotsedwa.

Tsopano, chimene iwo ankaganiza kapena chimene iwo ankaganiza chinali chakuti Imran ataya kutchuka konse, chifukwa boma lake linali litapanga zolakwa zambiri. Panali nkhani za ziphuphu za mkazi wake, etc., etc. Ndiye chinachake chinachitika mu July chomwe chinagwedeza kukhazikitsidwa, chomwe chiri kuti m'chigawo chokhala ndi anthu ambiri komanso chofunika kwambiri m'dzikoli, chofunika kwambiri pa mphamvu, Punjab, panali 20. zisankho za aphungu a mipando ya aphungu, ndipo Imran adapambana 15 mwa iwo. Akadapambana ena awiri, phwando lake likanakhala lokonzekera bwino. Ndiye izo zinasonyeza kuti thandizo kwa iye, ngati litasanduka nthunzi, likubwerera, chifukwa anthu adangodabwa ndi boma lomwe lidamulowetsa. Ndipo, ndikuganiza, zidapatsanso Imran chiyembekezo chachikulu kuti atha kupambana zisankho zotsatila mosavuta. Ndipo iye anapita pa ulendo waukulu wa dziko, amene anali mbali ziwiri: Asilikali aika andale achinyengo mu ulamuliro, ndipo United States anakonza kusintha ulamuliro. Ndipo imodzi mwa nyimbo zazikulu kwambiri pa ziwonetsero zonsezi, zomwe zinali ndi mazana a zikwi za anthu pa izo, inali "Iye amene ali bwenzi la United States ndi wachinyengo. Wachiwembu.” Imeneyi inali nyimbo yaikulu komanso nyimbo yotchuka kwambiri panthawiyo. Kotero, iye, mosakayikira, wadzimanganso yekha.

Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti ndi chochitika chimenecho, Amy, mu Julayi, chosonyeza chithandizo chodziwika bwino kudzera pa zisankho, pomwe sali ngakhale mphamvu, zomwe zidawadetsa nkhawa, kotero akhala akuchita kampeni yomutsutsa. Kumumanga pansi pa malamulo odana ndi uchigawenga n’konyansa kwambiri. Iye wakhala akuukira oweruza m’mbuyomu. Iye anali kutsutsana ndi akuluakulu a zamalamulo m'mawu ake tsiku lina. Ngati mukufuna kumumanga, muli ndi - mukhoza kumuimba mlandu wonyoza khoti, kuti apite kukamenyana ndi zimenezo, ndipo tiwona yemwe adzapambana, ndi bwalo liti. Koma m’malo mwake amumanga motsatira malamulo achigawenga, zomwe zimadetsa nkhawa, kuti ngati cholinga chake ndi kuti asalowe zisankho zikubwerazi chifukwa cha milandu yomwe amati ndi yauchigawenga, izi zibweretsa chipwirikiti m’dziko muno. Sakudandaula kwambiri pakadali pano, kuchokera pazomwe ndingathe kusonkhanitsa.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Ndipo, Tariq, ndimafuna ndikufunseni - chifukwa cha ziwonetsero zazikulu zomwe zachitika pomuchirikiza, kodi mukuganiza kuti ngakhale anthu omwe akutsutsana ndi Imran Khan akugwirizana kumbuyo kwake, motsutsana ndi kukhazikitsidwa kwa ndale ndi asitikali. dziko? Kupatula apo - komanso kuthekera kopitilira kusokoneza m'dziko lomwe ndi lachisanu padziko lonse lapansi potengera kuchuluka kwa anthu.

Mtengo wa TARIQ ALI: Eya, ine ndikuganiza iwo ali ndi nkhawa. Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti Imran adalankhula mofunikira kwambiri m'mawu ake kumapeto kwa sabata. Iye anati, “Musaiwale. Mverani mabelu omwe akulira ku Sri Lanka,” pomwe panali zipolowe zomwe zidakhala kunyumba ya Purezidenti zomwe zidapangitsa kuti Purezidenti athawe ndipo kusintha pang'ono kudayamba. Anati, "Sitikuyenda mwanjira imeneyo, koma tikufuna zisankho zatsopano, ndipo tikuzifuna posachedwa." Tsopano, atatenga ulamuliro, boma latsopano linanena kuti tidzayesa kuchita zisankho mu September kapena October. Tsopano ayimitsa zisankho izi mpaka Ogasiti chaka chamawa.

Ndipo, Juan, muyenera kumvetsetsa kuti nthawi yomweyo, boma latsopano likuchita nawo IMF zapangitsa kuti mitengo ikwere kwambiri mdziko muno. Panopa pali anthu ambiri amene sangakwanitse kugula zakudya zofunika kwambiri m’dzikoli. Zakhala zodula kwambiri. Mtengo wa gasi wakwera. Kotero, kwa osauka, omwe ali ndi magetsi ochepa, ndizopweteka kwambiri. Ndipo anthu, ndithudi, amaimba mlandu boma latsopano, chifukwa ili ndi boma lomwe linachita mgwirizano ndi IMF, ndipo mkhalidwe wa zachuma m’dzikolo uli wodetsa nkhaŵa kwambiri. Ndipo izi zakwezanso kutchuka kwa Imran, mopanda chikaiko. Ndikutanthauza kuti, zokambidwa ndizakuti pakadakhala chisankho chomwe chichitike m'miyezi inayi ikubwerayi, asesa dziko lonse.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Ndipo mudatchulapo za udindo wa usilikali pa ndale za Pakistani. Kodi ubale wa asitikali ndi Imran usanayambike bwanji, asadachotsedwe ngati nduna yayikulu?

Mtengo wa TARIQ ALI: Chabwino, iwo anavomereza kuti iye abwere ku ulamuliro. Palibe kukaikira za izo. Ndikutanthauza, zingakhale zochititsa manyazi kwa iye ndi kwa iwo tsopano momwe zilili m'dzikoli, koma palibe kukayikira kuti asilikali anali, kwenikweni, pambuyo pake pamene adayamba kulamulira. Koma monga andale ena, wagwiritsa ntchito mphamvu zake ndikudzipangira maziko ake m'dzikolo, lomwe kale linkangokhala paulamuliro, boma la Pakhtunkhwa, boma, boma losankhidwa kumpoto kwa dzikolo, kumalire ndi Afghanistan, koma tsopano ikufalikira, ngakhale kumadera ena a Karachi. Ndipo a Punjab tsopano akuwoneka kuti ndi malo achitetezo, amodzi mwa a PTI - a Imran's chipani - malo olimba kwambiri.

Chifukwa chake, magulu ankhondo ndi ndale sakuchita mwanjira yawo. Ndikutanthauza, adaganiza kuti atha kupanga bata kwatsopano ndi abale a Sharif. Tsopano, chomwe chiri chosangalatsa, Juan, ndipo sichinatchulidwe kuti pamaso pa Shehbaz Sharif, mukudziwa, akulowa mwachidwi nsapato za Imran, panali kusiyana, ndikuuzidwa, pakati pa abale awiriwa. Mchimwene wake wamkulu, Nawaz Sharif, yemwe anali nduna yayikulu, yemwe ali ku Britain, akuti akudwala, chifukwa adatulutsidwa m'ndende pamilandu yakatangale kuti akachite opareshoni ku Britain - wakhala pano kwa zaka zingapo - adatsutsana ndi Shehbaz. akubwera kudzatenga udindo. Anati, "Kulibwino tipite kukachita zisankho zomwe zachitika posachedwa pomwe Imran sakondedwa, ndipo titha kupambana, ndiye tikhala ndi zaka patsogolo." Koma mchimwene wake anamuposa iye kapena chirichonse, komabe iwo amathetsa mikangano iyi, ndipo anati, “Ayi, ayi, ife tikusowa boma latsopano tsopano. Zinthu zafika poipa.” Chabwino, izi ndi zotsatira.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndidafunanso kukufunsani za kusefukira koopsa komwe kunachitika ku Pakistan, Tariq. M'miyezi iwiri yapitayi, mvula yamkuntho yamphamvu kwambiri yapha anthu pafupifupi 800, kusefukira kwamadzi kuwononga nyumba zopitilira 60,000. Nawa mawu ena a anthu amene anapulumuka kusefukira kwa madzi.

AKBAR BALOCH: [kumasulira] Tili ndi nkhawa kwambiri. Akulu athu akuti sadaone mvula ndi kusefukira kwamtunduwu pazaka 30 mpaka 35 zapitazi. Aka kanali koyamba kuona mvula yamphamvu ngati imeneyi. Tsopano tili ndi nkhawa kuti, Mulungu aletsa, mvula yamphamvu yotereyi idzapitirirabe m’tsogolo, chifukwa nyengo ikusintha. Kotero ife tsopano tiri ndi mantha kwambiri ndi izi. Tili ndi nkhawa kwambiri.

SHER MOHAMMAD: [kumasulira] Mvula inawononga nyumba yanga. Ziweto zanga zonse zinatayika, minda yanga yasakazidwa. Moyo wathu wokha ndiwo unapulumutsidwa. Palibe china chatsalira. Zikomo Mulungu, adapulumutsa moyo wa ana anga. Tsopano ife tiri pa chifundo cha Allah.

MOHAMMAD AMINE: [kumasulira] Katundu wanga, nyumba yanga, chilichonse chidasefukira. Chotero tinabisala padenga la sukulu ya boma kwa masiku atatu usana ndi usiku, pafupifupi anthu 200 okhala ndi ana. Tinakhala padenga masiku atatu. Madziwo ataphwera pang’ono, tinakokera anawo m’matope n’kuyenda kwa masiku awiri mpaka titafika pamalo abwino.

AMY GOODMAN: Chifukwa chake, zitha kukhala pafupifupi anthu chikwi chimodzi adafa, makumi masauzande akusamuka. Kufunika kwa kusintha kwanyengo ku Pakistan komanso momwe zikukhudzira ndale zadziko?

Mtengo wa TARIQ ALI: Zikusokoneza ndale padziko lonse lapansi, Amy. Ndipo Pakistan, inde, si - siingakhoze kuchotsedwa, komanso sichapadera. Koma chomwe chimapangitsa Pakistan, kumlingo wina, kukhala wosiyana ndikuti kusefukira kwamadzi pamlingo uwu - ndizowona zomwe munthuyo adanena - kuti sanawonedwepo kale, osati kukumbukira. Pakhala kusefukira kwa madzi, ndipo pafupipafupi, koma osati pamlingo uwu. Ndikutanthauza, ngakhale mzinda wa Karachi, womwe ndi mzinda waukulu kwambiri wamakampani mdziko muno, womwe sunawonepo kusefukira kwa madzi m'mbuyomu, iwo anali - theka la mzindawu linali pansi pamadzi, kuphatikiza madera omwe anthu apakati komanso apamwamba amakhala. . Kotero, chakhala chododometsa chachikulu.

Funso ndi ili - ndipo ili ndi funso lomwe limabwera nthawi zonse pakakhala chivomezi, kusefukira kwa madzi, masoka achilengedwe: Chifukwa chiyani Pakistan, maboma otsatizana, asitikali ndi anthu wamba, sanathe kumanga malo ochezera, malo otetezera anthu wamba? anthu? Ndi zabwino kwa olemera ndi olemera. Iwo akhoza kuthawa. Akhoza kuchoka m’dzikolo. Akhoza kupita kuchipatala. Ali ndi chakudya chokwanira. Koma kwa ambiri a dziko, izi sizili choncho. Ndipo izi zikungowonetsa zovuta zachitukuko zomwe zakhala zikuwononga Pakistan, ndipo tsopano zawonongeka kwambiri ndi IMF zofuna, zomwe zikuwononga dziko. Ndikutanthauza kuti m’madera ena m’dzikoli muli njala. Madzi osefukirawo anawononga mzinda wa Balochistan, womwe ndi umodzi mwa madera osauka kwambiri m’dzikolo komanso chigawo chomwe sichinanyalanyazidwe kwa zaka zambiri ndi maboma motsatizana. Chifukwa chake, mukudziwa, nthawi zonse timalankhula ndikugwirira ntchito limodzi ndi masoka achilengedwe kapena masoka akusintha kwanyengo, koma boma liyenera kukhazikitsa bungwe lokonzekera kuti likonzekere kumanga chikhalidwe cha anthu, chitukuko cha dziko. Izi sizikugwira ntchito ku Pakistan, inde. Mayiko ena ambiri ayenera kuchita chimodzimodzi. Koma ku Pakistan, zinthu ndizovuta kwambiri, chifukwa olemera samasamala. Iwo samasamala basi.

AMY GOODMAN: Tariq Ali, tisanapite, tili ndi masekondi 30, ndipo ndimafuna ndikufunseni za Julian Assange. Tangochitapo gawo pa maloya a Julian Assange ndi atolankhani omwe akutsutsa CIA ndi Mike Pompeo payekha, wakale CIA wotsogolera, chifukwa chogwira ntchito ndi kampani yaku Spain mu bugging ofesi ya kazembe, mavidiyo, ma audio, kutenga makompyuta ndi mafoni a alendo, kuwatsitsa, kusokoneza mwayi woyimira kasitomala. Kodi izi zingalepheretse kutulutsidwa kwa a Julian Assange, yemwe akukumana ndi milandu yaukazitape ku United States?

Mtengo wa TARIQ ALI: Chabwino, ziyenera, Amy - ndilo yankho loyamba - chifukwa iyi yakhala nkhani yandale kuyambira pachiyambi. Zowona kuti akuluakulu adakambirana za kupha Assange kapena ayi, ndipo ndi dziko lomwe boma la Britain ndi oweruza, akuchita mgwirizano, akumubweza, ponena kuti uku si mlandu wandale, uku sikuzunzika ndale. , ndizodabwitsa kwambiri.

Chabwino, ndikuyembekeza kuti mlanduwu ubweretsa mfundo zina patsogolo ndipo zochita zina zimachitidwa, chifukwa kutulutsa kumeneku kuyenera kuyimitsidwa. Tonse tikuyesera, koma andale, makamaka, makamaka a zipani zonse ziwiri - ndi nduna yatsopano yaku Australia pachisankho adalonjeza kuti achitapo kanthu. Mphindi yomwe akukhala nduna yaikulu, amangokhalira ku United States - sizinali zodabwitsa. Koma panopa, thanzi la Julian n’loipa. Tikuda nkhawa kwambiri ndi momwe akuchitidwira kundende. Asakhale m'ndende, ngakhale atachotsedwa. Chifukwa chake, ndikuyembekeza zabwino koma ndikuwopa zoyipa kwambiri, chifukwa munthu sayenera kukhala ndi malingaliro olakwika okhudza oweruza awa.

AMY GOODMAN: Tariq Ali, wolemba mbiri, wotsutsa, wopanga mafilimu, wolemba Kuukira ku Pakistan: Momwe Mungagwetsere Ulamuliro Wankhanza. Buku lake laposachedwa, Winston Churchill: Nthawi Zake, Zolakwa Zake.