ndi Reiner Braun, International Peace Bureau, April 11, 2022
Kodi mungadzidziwitse nokha?
Oleg Bodrov: Ndine Oleg Bodrov, katswiri wa sayansi ya zachilengedwe, katswiri wa zachilengedwe komanso Wapampando wa Public Council of the Southern Shore of the Gulf of Finland, St. Chitetezo cha chilengedwe, chitetezo cha nyukiliya ndi kulimbikitsa mtendere zakhala njira zazikulu za ntchito yanga kwa zaka 40 zapitazi. Lero, ndikumva ngati gawo la Ukraine: mkazi wanga ndi theka la Chiyukireniya; bambo ake aku Mariupol. Anzanga ndi anzanga ndi akatswiri a zachilengedwe ochokera ku Kiev, Kharkiv, Dnipro, Konotop, Lviv. Ndine wokwera, pazikwere ndinalumikizidwa ndi chingwe chachitetezo ndi Anna P. wochokera ku Kharkov. Bambo anga, amene anali nawo m’Nkhondo Yadziko Lachiŵiri, anavulazidwa mu January 1945 ndipo analandira chithandizo m’chipatala ku Dnepropetrovsk.
Yuri Sheliazhenko: Dzina langa ndi Yurii Sheliazhenko, ndine wofufuza zamtendere, wophunzitsa komanso wolimbikitsa anthu ku Ukraine. Katswiri wanga ndikuwongolera kusamvana, chiphunzitso chazamalamulo ndi ndale komanso mbiri yakale. Kuphatikiza apo, ndine mlembi wamkulu wa Chiyukireniya Pacifist Movement komanso membala wa Board of the European Bureau for Conscientious Objection (EBCO) komanso World BEYOND War (WBW).
Kodi mungafotokoze momwe mukuwonera zochitika zenizeni?
OB: Chigamulo chokhudza ntchito yankhondo yolimbana ndi Ukraine chinapangidwa ndi Purezidenti wa Russia. Panthawi imodzimodziyo, nzika zaku Russia, kuweruza ndi malipoti odziimira okha, zimakhulupirira kuti nkhondo ndi Ukraine sizingatheke!
N’chifukwa chiyani zimenezi zinachitika? Kwa zaka zisanu ndi zitatu zapitazi, nkhani zabodza zotsutsana ndi Chiyukireniya zakhala zikuwulutsidwa tsiku lililonse pamawayilesi onse aboma aku Russia. Iwo analankhula za kufooka ndi kusakondedwa kwa apurezidenti a Ukraine, a nationalists kutsekereza rapprochement ndi Russia, chikhumbo Ukraine kulowa EU ndi NATO. Ukraine amaonedwa ndi Purezidenti wa Russia monga gawo mbiri mbali ya Ufumu wa Russia. Kuwukira kwa Ukraine, kuphatikiza pa kufa kwa anthu masauzande ambiri, kwawonjezera zoopsa zapadziko lonse lapansi. Ntchito zankhondo zimachitikira m'dera lomwe lili ndi magetsi a nyukiliya. Kugunda kwangozi kwa zipolopolo m'mafakitale opangira mphamvu za nyukiliya ndikowopsa kuposa kugwiritsa ntchito zida za atomiki.
YS: Kuukira kosaloledwa kwa Russia kupita ku Ukraine ndi gawo la mbiri yakale ya ubale ndi udani pakati pa mayiko awiriwa, komanso ndi gawo la mikangano yapadziko lonse yapakati pa Kumadzulo ndi Kummawa. Kuti timvetse bwino, tiyenera kukumbukira atsamunda, imperialism, nkhondo yozizira, "neoliberal" hegemony ndi kuwuka kwa wannabe illiberal hegemons.
Kulankhula za Russia motsutsana ndi Ukraine, chofunikira kwambiri kumvetsetsa za nkhondo yonyansayi pakati pa mphamvu zamampepi akale ndi ulamuliro wakale wadziko lachikale ndi chikhalidwe chachikale cha zikhalidwe zonse zandale ndi zankhondo: onse ali ndi usilikali komanso dongosolo la kulera usilikali m'malo mwa maphunziro a usilikali. N’chifukwa chake olimbikitsa nkhondo kumbali zonse ziwiri amatchana chipani cha Nazi. M'malingaliro, akukhalabe m'dziko la "Great Patriotic War" ya USSR kapena "Ukrainian liberation movement" ndipo amakhulupirira kuti anthu ayenera kugwirizana mozungulira mtsogoleri wawo wamkulu kuti aphwanye mdani wawo yemwe alipo, awa a Hitler-ites kapena Stalinists omwe alibe bwino, pa udindo wawo. zomwe amaziwona modabwitsa anthu oyandikana nawo.
Kodi pali zina zilizonse mumkanganowu zomwe anthu akumadzulo sakudziwa kapena sadziwa bwino?
YS: Inde, ndithudi. Kufalikira kwa Ukraine ku America kunakula kwambiri pambuyo pa nkhondo ziwiri zapadziko lonse. US ndi ena anzeru aku Western pa nthawi ya nkhondo yozizira adalemba nthumwi mu diaspora kuti agwiritse ntchito malingaliro adziko poyambitsa kupatukana ku USSR, ndipo anthu aku Ukraine amitundu ina adalemera kapena adapanga ntchito mu ndale za US ndi Canada ndi asitikali, mwanjira imeneyi, malo ochezera amphamvu aku Ukraine adatuluka ndi maubwenzi. ku Ukraine ndi zolinga za interventionist. Pamene USSR idagwa ndipo Ukraine idalandira ufulu wodzilamulira, mayiko aku Western adagwira nawo ntchito yomanga dziko.
Kodi pali zochitika zotsutsana ndi nkhondo ku Russia ndipo ngati zili choncho, zikuwoneka bwanji?
OB: Zotsutsana ndi nkhondo zinachitikira ku St. Petersburg, Moscow, ndi mizinda ikuluikulu yambiri ya ku Russia. Anthu masauzande ambiri anangopita m’makwalala n’kunena kuti sakugwirizana nazo. Gulu lodziwika kwambiri la omwe atenga nawo mbali ndi achinyamata. Ophunzira oposa 7,500, ogwira ntchito komanso omaliza maphunziro a yunivesite yakale kwambiri ku Russia ya Lomonosov Moscow asayina chikalata chotsutsa nkhondoyi. Ophunzira akufuna kudziona ngati mbali ya dziko laufulu wademokalase, lomwe angalandidwe chifukwa cha mfundo zodzipatula za purezidenti. Akuluakulu amati Russia ili ndi zida zofunika pa moyo ndi zida za atomiki zomwe zingawateteze, ngakhale atapatukana, ndi dziko lonse lapansi. Oposa 1 miliyoni 220 zikwi za anthu aku Russia adasaina pempho lakuti "NO TO WAR". Ma picket amtundu umodzi "KUPANA NDI ZIDA ZA NUCLEAR" ndi "AGAINST BLOODY WAR" amachitika tsiku lililonse ku St. Petersburg ndi mizinda ina ya ku Russia. Panthawi imodzimodziyo, ogwira ntchito ku Institute of Atomic Energy dzina lake Kurchatov ku Moscow "anagwirizana ndi chisankho cha Purezidenti wa Russian Federation kuti achite ntchito yapadera yankhondo" m'dera la Ukraine. Ndipo ichi sichiri chitsanzo chokhacho chothandizira chiwawa. Ine ndi anzanga mu gulu la chilengedwe ndi mtendere tikukhulupirira kuti tsogolo lathu lasweka ku Russia ndi Ukraine.
Kodi mtendere ndi Russia ndi nkhani ku Ukraine pakali pano?
YS: Inde, iyi ndi nkhani yopanda kukaikira kulikonse. Purezidenti Zelenskyy adasankhidwa mu 2019 chifukwa cha malonjezo ake oletsa nkhondo ndikukambirana zamtendere, koma adaphwanya malonjezowa ndikuyamba kupondereza atolankhani aku Russia komanso otsutsa ku Ukraine, kulimbikitsa anthu onse kuti amenye nkhondo ndi Russia. Izi zidagwirizana ndi kuwonjezereka kwa thandizo lankhondo la NATO ndi zida zanyukiliya. Putin adayambitsa zida zake zanyukiliya ndikufunsa Kumadzulo kuti zitsimikizire chitetezo, choyamba kusagwirizana ndi Ukraine. M'malo mopereka zitsimikizo zotere, akumadzulo adathandizira ntchito yankhondo yaku Ukraine ku Donbass komwe kuphwanya malamulo oletsa kuphana kunakula ndipo m'masiku asanafike kuukira kwa Russia anthu wamba adaphedwa ndikuvulazidwa pafupifupi tsiku lililonse kumbali zonse ziwiri, motsogozedwa ndi boma komanso osayendetsedwa ndi boma. madera.
Kodi kukana mtendere ndi kusachita zachiwawa ndi kwakukulu bwanji m'dziko lanu?
OB: Ku Russia, zofalitsa zonse zodziyimira pawokha za demokalase zatsekedwa ndipo zasiya kugwira ntchito. Mabodza ankhondo akuchitika panjira zonse za TV ya boma. Facebook ndi Instagram ndizoletsedwa. Nkhondo itangoyamba, malamulo atsopano adakhazikitsidwa motsutsana ndi zabodza komanso "kutsutsa gulu lankhondo la Russia lomwe likuchita ntchito yapadera ku Ukraine." Mabodza ndi malingaliro aliwonse omwe amawonetsedwa poyera omwe amatsutsana ndi zomwe zimanenedwa m'manyuzipepala. Zilango zimaperekedwa kuchokera ku chindapusa chachikulu cha ma ruble masauzande angapo, mpaka kundende mpaka zaka 15. Purezidenti adalengeza kulimbana ndi "opandukira dziko" omwe amalepheretsa kukhazikitsidwa kwa mapulani ake a ku Ukraine. Unduna wa Zachilungamo ku Russian Federation ukupitilizabe kupatsa udindo wa "othandizira akunja" kwa mabungwe azachilengedwe ndi ufulu wa anthu omwe amagwirizana ndi anzawo ochokera kumayiko ena. Kuopa kuponderezedwa kukukhala chinthu chofunikira kwambiri pamoyo ku Russia.
Kodi demokalase ikuwoneka bwanji ku Ukraine? Kodi zikufanana?
YS: Pa february 24, 2022 a Putin adayambitsa zigawenga zake zankhanza komanso zosagwirizana ndi malamulo, monga amanenera, potsutsa komanso kuchotsa usilikali ku Ukraine. Zotsatira zake, onse a Russia ndi Ukraine akuwoneka kuti ali ndi zida zankhondo ndipo akufanana kwambiri ndi chipani cha Nazi, ndipo palibe amene angafune kusintha. Olamulira a populist autocrats ndi magulu awo m'maiko onsewa amapindula ndi nkhondo, mphamvu zawo zimalimba ndipo pali mipata yambiri yopezera phindu. Nsomba zaku Russia zimapindula chifukwa chodzipatula ku Russia padziko lonse lapansi chifukwa zikutanthauza kuti kulimbikitsa asitikali komanso zonse zapagulu zili m'manja mwawo. Kumadzulo, gulu lopanga usilikali lidasokoneza boma ndi anthu, amalonda a imfa adapindula kwambiri ndi thandizo lankhondo ku Ukraine: Thales (wopereka mivi ya Javelin ku Ukraine), Raytheon (wopereka mivi ya Stinger) ndi Lockheed Martin (kugawa ndege). ) awona kuwonjezeka kwakukulu kwa phindu ndi mtengo wamsika. Ndipo akufuna kupeza phindu lochulukirapo popha ndi kuwononga.
Mukuyembekezera chiyani kuchokera kumagulu amtendere padziko lapansi ndi anthu onse okonda mtendere?
OB: Ndikofunikira kuti omwe atenga nawo mbali mu "Movement for Peace" agwirizane ndi okonda zachilengedwe, omenyera ufulu wa anthu, odana ndi nkhondo, odana ndi nyukiliya ndi mabungwe ena okonda mtendere. Mikangano iyenera kuthetsedwa mwa zokambirana, osati nkhondo. MTENDERE ndi wabwino kwa tonsefe!
Kodi munthu wapacifist angachite chiyani kuti akhazikitse mtendere dziko lake likawukiridwa?
YS: Chabwino, choyamba pacifist ayenera kukhalabe pacifist, kupitiriza kuyankha chiwawa ndi maganizo opanda chiwawa ndi zochita. Muyenera kugwiritsa ntchito zoyesayesa zonse kufunafuna ndikuthandizira mayankho amtendere, kukana kukwera, kusamala za chitetezo cha ena ndi inu nokha. Okondedwa, zikomo chifukwa chosamalira momwe zinthu zilili ku Ukraine. Tiyeni timange limodzi dziko labwinoko lopanda magulu ankhondo ndi malire kuti pakhale mtendere ndi chisangalalo cha anthu onse.
Kuyankhulana kunachitika ndi Reiner Braun (mwa njira zamagetsi).
