"Chisankho Chosaiwalika" cha ICC Chitha Kutsegulira Khothi ku Israel Pazolakwa Zankhondo ku Palestina

AMY GOODMAN: izi ndi Demokarase Tsopano!, democracynow.org, Lipoti Lodzipatula. Ndine Amy Goodman.

Khothi Lapadziko Lonse lalamula kuti ili ndi mphamvu zofufuzira milandu yankhondo zaku Israeli zomwe zidachitika m'malo a Palestina. A Israeli ndi United States adatsutsa chigamulochi. Israeli sali membala wa ICC, koma Apalestina adalowa khothi ku 2015. Israel yati khothi lilibe ulamuliro pazigawo za Occupied Terror chifukwa Palestine si boma lodziyimira palokha. Koma fayilo ya ICC oweruza anakana mfundo imeneyo. Chigamulochi chikubwera patadutsa zaka ziwiri kuchokera pomwe wozenga milandu wamkulu ku ICC adapeza kuti, mawu akuti, "milandu yankhondo yakhala ikuchitika ku West Bank, kuphatikiza East Jerusalem, ndi Gaza Strip," osalemba. Loweruka, Nduna Yowona Zakunja ya Palestina Riyad al-Maliki alandila lingaliro la ICC.

RIYAD KWA-MALIKI: Israeli wakhala akuchiritsidwa nthawi zonse kuposa lamulo. Palibe kuyankha mlandu zikafika ku Israeli. Tsopano palibe aliyense, kuphatikiza United States of America, amene akanatha kuteteza Israeli. Mukudziwa kuti nthawi zonse tikapita ku Security Council, United States of America ndiyomwe imateteza Israeli ku kutsutsidwa kulikonse ndikutilepheretsa kulandira zilango zilizonse zotsutsana ndi Israeli. Masiku ano, United States of America silingachite chilichonse kuteteza Israeli. Zotsatira zake, Israeli akuyenera kuchitidwa ngati wachifwamba wankhondo.

AMY GOODMAN: Prime Minister waku Israeli a Benjamin Netanyahu adadzudzula Khothi Lalikulu Lapadziko Lonse, ndikuwadzudzula kuti akuchita "zotsutsana ndi Semitism" zenizeni. Pakadali pano, oyang'anira a Biden ati, ali ndi "nkhawa zazikulu" ndi chigamulo cha ICC. Lingaliro la khotilo litha kubweretsanso milandu yokhudza milandu yankhondo yolimbana ndi Hamas ndi magulu ena aku Palestine.

Gawo la kafukufuku wa ICC likuyembekezeka kuyang'ana zomwe Israeli adachita ku Gaza mu 2014, pomwe ma Palestina 2,100 adamwalira. Wokhala ku Gaza Tawfiq Abu Jama adamwalira ndi abale ake 24 pachiwopsezo. Adalankhula Loweruka.

Mtengo wa TAWFIQ Abu JAMA: [kutanthauziridwa] Nditamva za chisankhochi, ndidasangalala kwambiri. Koma ndikukayika kuti mayiko adziko lonse lapansi ndi makhothi apadziko lonse lapansi atha kuzenga mlanduwo. Tikukhulupirira kuti chisankhocho ndichowona ndipo chidzawafikitsa kuweruzidwa ndikubweretsa chilungamo kwa ana omwe adaphedwa pankhondo.

AMY GOODMAN: Tikupita ku Gaza City, komwe tikuphatikizana ndi Raji Sourani, loya wopambana mphotho za anthu komanso director of the Palestine Center for Human Rights ku Gaza, wopambana mphotho ya Robert F. Kennedy Human Rights Award ndi Right Livelihood Mphoto.

Takulandirani Demokarase Tsopano! Ndizosangalatsa kukhala nanu. Raji, mutha kuyankha poyankha lingaliro la International Criminal Court?

RAJI SOURANI: Ndi chisankho chachikulu, Amy. Ndi lingaliro lomwe lidalemba mbiri, osati a Palestina okha, osati aku Palestina okha, koma kwa ozunzidwa padziko lonse lapansi. Ndikuganiza, ndi chisankho ichi, titha kutsimikizira kuti kudziyimira pawokha komanso kudalirika kwa ICC kubwezeretsedwanso, ndipo bulangeti lamantha, lomwe lidafalikira kukhothi lonse chifukwa cha lamulo la a Trump, lafufutidwa. Kotero, tsopano ICC itha kugwira ntchito palokha komanso malinga ndi lamulo lomwe ili nalo.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndiye, izi zitanthauza chiyani kwa Israeli, chifukwa IDF ndi kwa Apalestina?

RAJI SOURANI: Kuti Israeli, kwa nthawi yoyamba m'mbiri yonse, adzakhala m'khothi lofunika kwambiri padziko lapansi, akuimbidwa mlandu wokhudza nkhondo, milandu yokhudza anthu komanso kuzunza nzika zaku Palestina. Ndipo idzayankha mlandu, ndikuyembekeza, osachepera milandu isanu: imodzi, kutsekedwa kwa Gaza Strip; ndipo chachiwiri pamalingaliro amisasa; ndipo, atatu, pa zoyipa pa Gaza Strip 2014; kulanda; ndi Kubwerera Kwakukulu Kwambiri. Israeli adzaimbidwa mlandu, ndipo akuyenera kuweruzidwapo.

AMY GOODMAN: Loweruka, Prime Minister a Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister waku Israeli, adadzudzula chigamulo cha International Criminal Court.

PRIME NDUNA BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: pamene ICC ikufufuza Israeli pamilandu yabodza yankhondo, uku ndikutsutsana ndi Semitism. Khotilo lidakhazikitsa njira zopewera nkhanza, monga kuphedwa kwa Nazi kwa anthu achiyuda, tsopano zikulimbana ndi dziko limodzi lachiyuda.

AMY GOODMAN: Chifukwa chake ndiye Prime Minister waku Israeli Loweruka. Lero, adachoka pamlandu wake wachinyengo. Raji Sourani, yankho lanu?

RAJI SOURANI: A, ndikuganiza khothi ili, si ndale. Ndipo uwu ndiye mutu wathu waukulu, ndikutanthauza, mutu wa izi, zonse zomwe timafuna ngati Palestina - monga woimira anthu aku Palestina: ulamuliro wamalamulo. Sitikufuna bwalo landale. Ndipo ndizo, ndikutanthauza, chiyani ICC anasonyeza. Pulogalamu ya ICC adaopsezedwa ndi a Trump, a Pompeo komanso nduna yayikulu ya Israeli. Ndipo amenewo anali magawo andale.

Mfundo yachiwiri, chifukwa chiyani Israeli amawopa bwalo lamilandu? Bwalo lamilandu lofunika kwambiri padziko lapansi. Ndi fayilo ya crème de la crème za zokumana nazo zaumunthu. Ndi zonse zomwe ikufuna kuchita, kubweretsa kuyankha kwa iwo omwe akuganiziridwa kuti apanga milandu yankhondo. Israeli ali ndi crème de la crème a maloya, oweruza, ophunzira, alamulo. Chifukwa chiyani samapita kumeneko kukadzitchinjiriza? Ili si khothi la Palestina. Ili ndi khothi lapadziko lonse lapansi lomwe lili ndi oweruza apadziko lonse lapansi, ndipo, chofunikira kwambiri, ndiloti ndilodziyimira palokha ndipo ndi akatswiri.

Ife, Apalestina, tili osowa, osowa bwino, kuti tibweretse chilungamo ndi ulemu kwa anthu. Ndipo tikusowa ICC chifukwa cha izo. Ndipo nthawi yomweyo, ICC imafunikira Apalestina, chifukwa iyenera kubwezeretsanso kukhulupirika kwawo komanso kudziyimira pawokha. Ndizo zonse zomwe tikufuna: lamulo lalamulo.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndikufuna kuti ndiyankhe, Raji, kwa Mneneri wa State Department a Ned Price. Chifukwa chake, awa ndi oyang'anira a Biden, osati oyang'anira a Trump, opereka chikalata Lachisanu pofotokoza, kutchula, "nkhawa zazikulu" za chigamulo cha ICC. Anati, "Monga tidafotokozera momveka bwino pomwe a Palestina adatinso kuti alowe nawo ku Roma Statute mu 2015, sitikukhulupirira kuti ma Palestina akuyenera kukhala boma lolamulira, chifukwa chake sali oyenerera kukhala membala ngati boma, kapena kutenga nawo mbali ngati boma mabungwe apadziko lonse lapansi, mabungwe, kapena misonkhano, kuphatikiza ICC. ” Awa ndiye oyang'anira a Biden.

RAJI SOURANI: Zikuwoneka kuti oyang'anira aku America akuphatikizana pakati pazinthu ziwiri: pakati pa khothi ndi oyang'anira aku America. Akuluakulu aku America, si khothi. Khothi ndi ICC, ndipo oweruza ndiwo ICC oweruza. Chifukwa chake, US idakhala ndi malo omveka bwino. Kuyambira tsiku limodzi la ICC, Amakana kusaina ndi kuvomereza Malamulo aku Roma. Amakana kukhala mbali ya ICC. Chifukwa chake sanalowe nawo. Israeli sanalowe nawo, komanso ICC kuyambira tsiku loyamba. US ndi Israel pakati pa mayiko omwe sanalowe nawo. Ndicho chifukwa chake kuli kovuta kwambiri kuvomereza, Amy, mkangano woyang'anira ku America.

Akuluakulu a Trump adalamula kuti aweruze osati okhawo omwe adatsutsa komanso omuthandiza, osati oweruza, omwe akugwira ntchito ku ICC, komanso maloya aku America omwe angathandize pakubweretsa aliyense mlandu, powamanga, powapatsa chindapusa. Tsopano, zomwe ndikufuna kunena pankhaniyi, kuti oyang'anira a Biden, ngati sangaletse lamulo la a Trump, achita cholakwika chachikulu komanso chachikulu. Chachiwiri, tikumvetsetsa chifukwa chake udindo waku America ngati uwu, chifukwa US idachita milandu ku Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria ndi madera osiyanasiyana padziko lapansi, ndipo atha kuyankha mlandu pazifukwa zomwezi Israeli adzaweruzidwa.

AMY GOODMAN: Tikulankhula ndi Raji Sourani, loya wodziwika bwino wapadziko lonse lapansi, ku Gaza City. Tilinso ndi Katherine Gallagher, loya wamkulu wa Center for Constitutional Rights, woimira milandu kwa ozunzidwa ku Palestina pamaso pa Khothi Lalikulu Lapadziko Lonse. Katherine, ngati mungayankhe lingaliro la ICC komanso yankho la oyang'anira Biden kuti lili ndi nkhawa zazikulu, ndipo ndinu ndani ICC?

KATHERINE mogwirizana GALLAGHER: Zedi. Ndipo m'mawa, Amy. Ndipo ndi mwayi waukulu kukhala nawo m'mawa uno ndi Raji Sourani. Ili ndi lingaliro losaiwalika. Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti palibe amene ayenera kulakwitsa pozindikira kuti ICC wasunthira kuti atsegule kafukufukuyu, asunthira kumapeto kwa milandu yokhudza milandu yomwe yachitika mdera la Palestina, chifukwa chogwira ntchito molimbika, kugwira ntchito molimbika kwazaka zambiri, komanso luso la anthu ngati Raji Sourani, a mabungwe omenyera ufulu wachibadwidwe ku Palestina monga ake, PCHR, Al-Haq, Al-Dameer, Al Mezan, Chitetezo cha Ana ku Palestina. Magulu onsewa agwira ntchito kwazaka zambiri kulembetsa kuzunzidwa ndikuwonetsetsa kuti mayiko akunja akudziwa za iwo, akumva za iwo, ndipo pomalizira pake amapereka mayankho ena.

Potengera zomwe chisankhochi chikutanthauza, zikutanthauza kuti wosuma akhoza kupitiliza kufufuza kudera lonse la Palestine, West Bank, kuphatikiza East Jerusalem, ndi Gaza Strip. Ndili ndi mwayi woyimira ma Palestina ochokera ku Gaza, ochokera ku West Bank, kuphatikiza East Jerusalem, komanso ochokera kunja, ndikupereka chigamulo cholimbikitsa khothi kuti livomereze ulamuliro wake ku Palestine. Ndipo ndalimbikitsa kuti wosuma mlandu atsegule kafukufuku wokhudza kuzunzidwa kwa anthu. Uwu ndi umodzi mwamilandu yomwe akuluakulu aku Israeli - ndipo ndikuganiza kuti ndikofunikira kunena kuti ICC imayang'ana udindo wamunthu aliyense, osati udindo wadziko. Anthu aku Palestine omwe ndimawayimilira adanyozedwa ufulu wawo wokhala ndi moyo, kukhala omasuka kuzunzidwa, umodzi wamabanja, kupeza chithandizo chamankhwala, ufulu woyenda, ufulu wokhala ndi moyo. Pali zophwanya zingapo zomwe zakhala zikuchitika kwazaka zambiri. Ndipo tsopano ICC, International Criminal Court, ili pafupi kutsegulira kafukufuku wokhudza milandu yomwe yabwerera ku 2014.

Ndinakhumudwitsidwa, Lachisanu madzulo, pomwe mneneri waku US State department motsogozedwa ndi Biden-Harris adadzudzula chigamulochi. Ndizodabwitsa kuti dzulo lake, a State department adatulutsanso nkhani ina yokhudza ICC pankhani yolengeza chigamulo cha Ongwen. Umenewu ndi mlandu womwe United States idapereka ukadaulo waluso panthawi yaulamuliro wa Obama-Biden. Chifukwa chake, zomwe tikuwona pano, monga Raji ananenera, si ICC uku ndikusewera ndale; ndi iwo omwe ali kunja kwa ICC. Aika zovuta zazikulu zandale kukhothi, m'maiko ena mamembala a khothi, ndipo tawona kale lero komanso kumapeto kwa sabata lino Israeli akunena kuti ipita kwa ogwirizana ku European Union ndi ena kuti apereke mtundu wina wa kuteteza ndale, zomwe ndizokhumudwitsa kwambiri.

Ili ndi khothi lodziyimira palokha, ndipo liyenera kugwira ntchito palokha. Koma kuti oyang'anira a Biden, oyang'anira a Biden-Harris, akupitilizabe mzere wa a Trump mpaka pano wokana kufufuzidwa ndi ICC ndipo, mozama kwambiri, kusunga fayilo ya ICC Woyimira milandu Fatou Bensouda pamndandanda wazisungidwe ndikukhalabe m'malo, monga Raji adanenera, lamulo lalikulu lomwe silingangotsogolera kuzilango za iwo omwe amathandizira pakufufuza kwa akuluakulu aku Israeli, kapena aku America kapena ena milandu yochitidwa ku Afghanistan, komanso itha perekani zilango zaboma komanso milandu kwa aliyense amene angagwirizane ndi zofunidwa ndi wozenga mlandu. Chifukwa chake, atha kuphatikiza nzika zaku US komanso nzika zaku Palestina. Chifukwa chake ntchitoyi ilibe chiopsezo, koma ndikofunikira kuti ichitike. Ndipo tikupemphadi oyang'anira a Biden kuti akweze oyang'anira. Ndikufuna ngati zingagwirizane ndi kafukufukuyu. Sichiyenera kuchita izi. Osachepera, iyenera kusiya kulepheretsa chilungamo.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo pankhaniyi, pomaliza, Raji Sourani, zomwe mukufuna kuti zifufuzidwe ndi International Criminal Court? Ndipo ngati woweruza wamkulu Fatou Bensouda alowedwa m'malo, kodi wamkulu wina wotsutsa akhoza kusintha izi?

RAJI SOURANI: Ndikukhulupirira kuti Bensouda atenga chisankho posachedwa, sabata ino kapena sabata yotsatira, ndipo aganiza zotsegula kafukufukuyu ndikusankha gulu lake kuti lipitilize izi. Ichi ndichinthu china. Ndikutanthauza, ife, monga nthumwi ya ozunzidwa, omwe amawona milandu yonse yankhondo komanso nkhanza zomwe achitiridwa anthu athu, timayang'ana kwa iwo. Timawadziwa mayina awo. Ndipo tikudziwa mamembala am'banjamo. Tikudziwa kuvutika, ndikutanthauza, adadutsamo. Ndipo ine ndekha, ndayika zaka 43 za moyo wanga kudikirira tsiku lino, kuti ndiwone ICC asankha kutsegulira kafukufuku wawo motsutsana ndi achi Israeli omwe akuwakayikira kuti ndiwochita zankhondo. Chifukwa chake, tikukhulupirira ndipo tili ndi chiyembekezo chonse kuti izi zichitika bwino kukhothi. Ndipo timagwiritsa ntchito luso lathu lonse kuti tibweretse chilungamo, ulemu kwa omwe akuvutika ku Palestina.

Ndikukhulupirira kuti wosuma mlandu watsopano asankhidwa posachedwa. Panali zovuta zambiri kuzungulira izi. Amayenera kusankhidwa Disembala watha. Izo sizinagwire ntchito, ndipo zinachedwetsedwa. Ndipo adatseguliranso chisankhocho. Ndikukhulupirira posachedwa atha kusankha ndi kusankha wosuma milandu watsopano kuti alowe m'malo mwa Bensouda akadzachoka muofesi panthawi yake. Ndili ndi chiyembekezo chonse kuti wosuma mlandu, wosuma mlandu yemwe akubwera, azichita monga Bensouda, chomwe chinali chitsanzo chabwino kwa ife, kwa wina aliyense woimira zikhalidwe zalamulo padziko lapansi, kuti achite, ndiudindo wawo, ndi kudziyimira pawokha, ndi ukatswiri wawo , kubweretsa chilungamo kwa ozunzidwa padziko lonse lapansi.