Florida Gunman Nikolas Cruz Knew Mmene Mungagwiritsire Ntchito Gun, Chifukwa cha NRA ndi US Army

AMY GOODMAN: izi ndi Demokarase Tsopano!, democracynow.org, Lipoti la Nkhondo ndi Mtendere, ndi gawo la 2 la zokambirana zathu JROTC ndi kuwombera mfuti ku Florida. Ngakhale mlungu watha sukulu ya Florida yopopera kuwombera mfuti yathetsa mkangano wa mfuti ndi mphamvu zokopa za National Rifle Association, mopanda malipiro ena aperekedwa ku mbali ina ya kuwombera. Mfuti wa ku Florida, Nikolas Cruz wazaka za 19, anali m'gulu la asilikali a Junior Reserve Officer Corps. Iye anali atavala zake JROTC shirt pamene adachita kupha anthu, pofuna kuyesana ndi ophunzira ena. Cruz nayenso anali gawo la munthu wachinayi JROTC gulu lachimake ku sukulu yomwe idalandira $ 10,000 pothandizira kuchokera ku NRA.

Timapitiriza kukambirana ndi Pat Elder, mkulu wa bungwe la National Coalition kuti ateteze Ubwino Wophunzira, gulu lomwe limayendera nkhondo kumasukulu. Iye ndi wolemba Kulemba usilikali ku United States.

Choncho, choyamba, Pat, tiuzeni momwe tingakhalire JROTC amagwira ntchito m'masukulu. Mwachitsanzo, ndi ana angati omwe ali ku sukulu ya Marjory Stoneham Douglas JROTC? Kodi ndi chiwerengero chotani ku United States?

PAT ELDER: Ndinayesa kupeza chidziwitso ichi, Amy, koma ndikudziwa kuti masukulu onse omwe amagwira-omwe ali nawo JROTC mapulogalamu ayenera kukhala osachepera ophunzira a 100. Ndipo ngati sangathe kusunga ophunzira a 100 kwa zaka ziwiri motsatira, ndiye kuti pulogalamuyo iyenera kutha.

Tsopano, izo zimabweretsa mfundo yochititsa chidwi yokhudzana ndi ntchito yowonongeka yomwe inatsogoleredwa ndi JROTC Lamulo la Cadet, lomwe silinayankhulidwe ku boma la federal, osati pa malamulo a boma, koma mmalo mwa sukulu zapadera ndi mabungwe a sukulu za boma za maphunziro ndi zapadera. Mwachitsanzo, ku Florida, zomwe zikuoneka kuti ndizogwirizana kwambiri ndi masukulu, malamulo a Florida tsopano amalola wophunzira yemwe amatenga zaka zinayi JROTC kuti alowe m'malo mwa biology, sayansi ya zakuthupi, maphunziro aumuthupi ndi luso la pulojekitiyi yowongoka yophunzitsidwa ndi asilikali. Ndizovuta kwambiri.

AMY GOODMAN: Dikirani. Bwerezani izo.

PAT ELDER: Ine nthawizonse ndimapemphedwa kubwereza izo. Ku Florida, ndi gawo la lamulo limene mwana amatenga zaka zinayi JROTC pulogalamu siyeneranso kutenga biology, sayansi ya zakuthupi, maphunziro apamwamba ndi luso. Zikondwerero zinayizo zimagwiritsidwa ntchito-zakhutitsidwa ndi kutenga JROTC pulogalamu.

Onani, pambuyo pa A Child Child Left Behind Act, Amy, machitidwe ambiri a sukulu m'dziko lonse lapansi adakhala ovuta kwambiri poyerekezera ndi mtundu wa ngongole ndi chiwerengero cha ophunzira oyenera kutenga ngongole, ndipo JROTC pulogalamu. Choncho a JROTC Pulogalamuyi yatha, m'malo osiyanasiyana, kuti ilowe m'malo mwa maphunziro apamtima komanso boma la America ndi midzi. Florida amapita patsogolo.

Ndipo ziyenera kuzindikiridwa pazimenezi ku Florida onse aphunzitsi omwe amaphunzitsidwa ayenera kukhala ndi madigiri a BA ndipo ayenera kukwaniritsa malangizo oyenerera aphunzitsi. Ayeneranso kukhala ndi madigiri apamwamba m'zaka zingapo. The JROTC Alangizi a Asilikali samayenera kukhala ndi digiri ya koleji. Kodi mgwirizano uli kuti? Kodi mgwirizanowu uli kuti?

AMY GOODMAN: Ana atatu, ana atatu a sukulu ya sekondale omwe adaphedwa ndi Cruz, anali ngati iye JROTC. Ndikufuna kutembenukira kwa Jillian Davis, yemwe adanena kuti anali JROTC ndi mfuti ya gunfighta ya ku Florida, Nikolas Cruz, mu kalasi ya chisanu ndi chinayi.

JILLIAN DAVIS: Osati mwana wamba kapena wamphongo JROTC. Iye ndithudi anali ndi_ndi chinachake chabe pangТono pa iye. Koma aliyense mu pulogalamuyi anali chabe quirky, koma anali owonjezera quirky. Ndipo ndimangokumbukira momveka bwino momwe iye analiri. Koma zinali zolungama, mochuluka kapena mochepa, kuti anali wamwano komanso wamtendere ndipo amanyadira nthawi-

WOTENGA: Kodi.

JILLIAN DAVIS: Pamene adakwiya, sizinali ngati iye. Sizinali khalidwe lake.

WOTENGA: Oo zoona? Pafupi ngati iye anali ndi-

JILLIAN DAVIS: Mkhalidwe wosiyana.

WOTENGA: Kodi.

JILLIAN DAVIS: Chifukwa anali chete.

AMY GOODMAN: Asilikali apereka Madalist of Heroism kwa atatu JROTC cadets omwe anafera ku Parkland, ku Florida, akuwombera: Peter Wang wazaka 15 ndi awiri omwe ali atsopano a 14, Martin Duque ndi Alaina Petty. Wang akuti anamwalira ali ndi khomo lotseguka kuti athandize anzako akusukulu kuthawa. Pat Elder, ngati mungathe kulankhula za ophunzira omwe amalowa nawo JROTC?

PAT ELDER: CHABWINO. Zikomo Amy. Chabwino, choyamba, ndi vuto lalikulu, ndipo ndikukhumudwa kwambiri ndi izi. Ndapereka nthawi yochuluka mu moyo wanga ndikuyesera kutenga mfuti m'manja mwa ana awa. Tsopano, izo zimandikumbutsa ine bukhu lolembedwa ndi Liutenant Colonel David Grossman. Icho chimatchedwa Killology. Ndipo iye akulemba Paducah, Kentucky, kuwombera mu laibulale ya sukulu. Zikuwoneka kuti panali ana asanu ndi atatu mu phokoso la pemphero, ndipo Michael Carneal adalowa mu laibulale, ndipo adali ndi thumba lokhala ndi maulendo asanu ndi atatu, ndipo adamuwombera pamutu nthawi imodzi. Ndipo Grossman akunena za "chinthu chodabwitsa."

Ndipo ine ndikubweretsa izo chifukwa_chifukwa Army amagwiritsa ntchito masewero a kanema-pali Msilikali wa America Masewero a kanema - kuti atenge ana. Ndi imodzi mwa masewera otchuka kwambiri ku America masiku ano, ndipo ndiwowonjezera. Awa ndi masewera othamanga oyambirira. Ndipo ndikukhulupirira mozama kuti ndi masewera a Army kuti aike zala zazing'ono kuzungulira zambiri, kaya ziri zenizeni kapena zenizeni, ngati n'kotheka. Kotero, kachiwiri, tiri ndi zikwi zazaka za 13 ku sukulu zapamwamba ku America zomwe zimapatsidwa zida zakupha kuti ziwombere m'masukulu awo apamwamba. Ndipo ngati sawombera sukulu yawo yapamwamba, amawombera m'magulu a zowonongeka zamalonda omwe amadzaza ndi fumbi lamtunduwu ndipo amatha kuyendetsedwa ndi ndondomeko ya Civil Society and National Rifle Association. Ndi pulogalamu yomwe iyenera kuyimitsidwa.

AMY GOODMAN: Kotero, ine ndikufuna kuti ndiyankhule zambiri za izi, ndipo ife tikukambirana izi Part 1, ubale pakati pa NRA ndi mapulogalamu awa, omwe ndi gawo lopangira JROTC, chabwino? Ndikutanthauza kuti muli ndi Nikolas Cruz, yemwe anali m'gulu la anthu anayi a pulogalamuyi. Mmodzi mwa ophunzirawo adanena kuti anali mfuti yabwino kwambiri.

PAT ELDER: Zosangalatsa kwambiri. Ndikuganiza kuti chidwi chachikulu chiyenera kuperekedwa kwa wothandizira NRA mu zonsezi, ndipo ndilo ndondomeko ya chikhalidwe cha anthu, kapena Cmp. Tsopano, a Cmp ili ku Anniston, Alabama. Mosiyana ndi mayiko ena padziko lonse lapansi omwe amawononga mwanzeru zida zawo za usilikali, apolisi amawabweretsa ku America. Choncho chimene asilikali akuchita ndi Army amapereka, monga mphatso, ku Pulogalamu ya Zachikhalidwe Zakale ndi mfuti ndi mabasiketi tsopano, ndipo izo kugulitsidwa. Kotero, Pulogalamu ya Zachikhalidwe Zachikhalidwe ili ndi chuma cha $ 160 miliyoni. Ndilo gulu lachinsinsi. Ndipo izo zimaperekedwa ndi Congress kuti agulitse zida zowonjezeredwa kapena zida za nkhondo kwa anthu a ku America potsitsimula.

Bungwe limenelo, Pulogalamu ya Civilian Marksmanship Program, ikuyang'anira mapulogalamu owombera m'masukulu. Ndiwo amene ayenera kukhazikitsa malamulo okhudza kuwombera zida, njira zotetezera komanso nkhani yokhudza kutsogolera. Ndondomeko ya Zigawo Zosagwirizana ndi Zigawo Zachikhalidwe zimatsutsana ndi kutsogolera ndikutsatira ndondomeko ya NRA ponena kuti izi sizimakupwetekeni kwambiri ndipo palibe vuto ndi kutsogolera pansi ndi kutsogolera mlengalenga.

Choncho, ndilo ndondomeko ya chikhalidwe cha anthu omwe ali oimira bungwe la National Rifle Association. Ndipo chidwi chofunika kwambiri chiyenera kuperekedwa pa Pulogalamu Yachikhalidwe Yachikhalidwe. Ngati mupita ku zimenezo webusaiti, mukhoza kupita ku club tracker, ndipo mukhoza kukopera kuchokera ku klabu tracker zonsezo JROTC mapulogalamu omwe ali ndi mapulogalamu a zizindikiro ku United States.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo kambiranani zambiri za kutsogolera.

PAT ELDER: Zikomo, Amy, chifukwa ndakhala ndikuganizira kwambiri. Ndikuganiza kuti nkhaniyi iyenera kuyambiranso. Eya, munthu wina akatulutsa phokoso loyendetsa mfuti, limatulutsa zonse zomwe zimatsogolera. Ndipo kotero, izo zimatsogolera, timagulu timene timaponyedwa mlengalenga. Ndipo, ndithudi, machitidwe a mpweya wabwino m'masukulu apamwamba sakukhazikitsidwa kuti asamalire mpweya umenewo. Ndipo kotero zimadalira njira yomwe mpweya wabwino ukuwombera. Nthawi zina, ikuwombera m'maso mwa anawo. Mtsogoleli amasonkhana pamapeto a mfuti, pansi, ndipo kutsogolo kumapezekanso kumbuyo komweko.

Ndipo Ndondomeko Yachikhalidwe Yachikhalidwe yakhala ikufalitsa ndondomeko zovuta kwambiri, zomwe zimanyalanyazidwa kwambiri m'masukulu m'dziko lonselo. Ndipotu, pali zithunzi, zofalitsidwa pa ife webusaiti, kuchokera ku Flint, Michigan, omwe akuwonetsa ana akuyenda kuchokera ku mzere woponya kuwombera. Ndipo ndiri ndi mavidiyo angapo, omwe, omwe amasonyeza kuti, kuchokera ku YouTube-sizikutengera zinthu izi-zomwe zikuwonetsa kuti ana a sukulu yasukulu akuphwanya malamulo ovuta. Ndipo akamayenda pamwambo wochita masewera olimbitsa thupi kapena kudutsa pansi pa chipinda chodyera, amaika-amayang'ana kutsogolo pa nsapato zawo, m'manja awo, pamapazi awo, pa zovala zawo, kupyolera mu nyumba yonseyo. Ndipo tili ndi maphunziro, ndi magulu awiri a sukulu ndi a German, omwe amasonyeza bwino kugwirizana pakati pa kuwombera kokha ndi mapulaneti otsogolera.

Panthawiyi, Ndondomeko Yoganizira Zachikhalidwe imatiuza kuti ndi zabwino ndipo zonse zomwe muyenera kuchita ndizowonetsetsa kuti ana asadye nthawi yomweyo ndikusamba m'manja. Panthawiyi, NIOSH amatiuza kuti kusamba m'manja sikokwanira kuti muyeretsedwe. Ndondomeko ya Zigawo Zachikhalidwe imanenanso kuti sukulu izigwiritsa ntchito trisodium phosphate kuti ziyeretsedwe pansi ndi malo odyera pambuyo pa kuwombera. Izi sizikuchitika basi. Ndipo ziyenera kutchulidwa, naponso, kuti TSP ndi kagajeni ndipo ndi owopsa kwambiri kwa chilengedwe.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo ngati mungathe kunena kachiwiri, Pat, yemwe amapeza ndalama Cmp, Ndondomeko Yoganizira Zachikhalidwe? Ndiyeno, ndi zonsezi-JROTC, Cmp, kutenga nawo mbali kwa NRA-ndani amene amaitcha shoti, motero, kusukulu?

PAT ELDER: Ndamva.

AMY GOODMAN: Kodi mtsogoleri wamkulu amachita chiyani?

PAT ELDER: Chabwino, zikomo chifukwa cha funso limenelo. Mbiri ya Pulogalamu ya Zachikhalidwe ya Zachikhalidwe ndi yosangalatsa kwambiri, Amy. Ikubwerera mpaka ku 1903. Pali memos yomwe imatulutsidwa ndi ankhondo isanafike nthawi yomweyi-inasonyeza kuti ankhondo anali oopsya kwambiri, chifukwa ankaganiza kuti anyamata achi America omwe anamenyana nawo nkhondo ya Spanish American adzakhala anthu abwino. Ndipo kotero, Congress inalamula kukhazikitsidwa kwa Pulogalamu Yachikhalidwe kuti iphunzitse mazana a zikwi za ana pomenyana ndi nkhondo, kotero kuti, ngati nkhondo ina idachitika, Amwenye adzaphunzitsidwa bwino kuwombera. Zosangalatsa kwambiri.

Mu 1996, pali umboni wochitira umboni wa Paulo Simon ndi Frank Lautenberg, awiri olemekezeka, omwe adawatcha Cmp "chiwongoladzanja" ndi "mphatso kwa a NRA. "Umenewo unali chaka chimene a Cmp sikunali mkono wa Congress. Ilo silinali gulu lachinsinsi, ndipo mmalo mwake linakhala bungwe lapadera. Ndipo monga choncho, zatha kusungira $ 160 milioni m'mabuku ogulitsa malonda mwa kugulitsa zida zankhondo zakugonjetsa.

Tsopano, ku gawo lotsatila la funso lanu, sukulu zaumwini zimayendetsedwa ndi akuluakulu. Akuluakulu a sukulu ndiwo akuyang'anira zomwe zikuchitika. Iwo ali ndi zodabwitsa-ali ndi mphamvu zodabwitsa ndi zodabwitsa mu sukulu zawo. Koma pulogalamuyo imayendetsedwa ndi nthambi iliyonse ya asilikali. Kotero, ngati muli ndi ndondomeko ya Marine Corps, ndiye muli ndi mabuku angapo osiyana a Marine Corps, kwa atsopano, sophomore, achinyamata ndi akuluakulu. Zonsezi zili pa intaneti. Ndipo ana amaphunzitsidwa mbiri kuchokera ku maonekedwe a Marine Corps. Ndipo palinso maiko tsopano omwe amalola maphunzirowa kuti alowe m'malo mwa maphunziro apamwamba.

Kotero, kuti muyankhe funso lanu, ponena za kutsogoleredwa mu sukulu, Chidziwitso Chachikhalidwe chimayang'anira izo. Mlangizi wa Army ndi munthu yemwe ali ndi udindo, ngakhale kuti ndi funso, Amy: Kodi tilidi ndi masewera olimbitsa thupi a masukulu? Inu mukudziwa, kotero udindo uli mwanjira ina. Koma mwalamulo, ndiye mtsogoleri yemwe ali woyang'anira sukulu. Amangosamba m'manja.

Ndi chinthu chomwecho ndi kuyesedwa kwa nkhondo. Tili ndi ana a 700,000 kudutsa m'dzikoli m'masukulu a 14,000 omwe amatenga izi ASVAB mayesero, ndipo zonsezi zimaperekedwa kwa olemba usilikali-maola anayi akuyesedwa, nambala za Security Social-kuphwanya malamulo a boma ndi malamulo a federal, komanso mbiri ya anthu. Ndipo ndi mayesero a nkhondo omwe apatsidwa. Ndipo kuti apange mfundoyo mofulumira, akuluakulu amalola mfundoyi kupita kumishonale, kuphwanya ufulu wachinsinsi. Ndipo asilikali amasonkhanitsa mfundozo kuchokera kwa ana. Dziko la Maryland ndi boma la New Hampshire liri ndi malamulo, ndipo malamulo amenewo amanena mosapita m'mbali kuti asilikali sangathe kulandira uthengawo popanda kuvomereza kwa makolo. Tili ndi sukulu zoposa chikwi, Amy, zomwe zimafuna kuti ophunzira adziwe kuyesedwa kwa asilikali, ndipo zonsezi zimapatsidwa kwa amayi ndi abambo opatsidwa ntchito popanda amayi ndi abambo kudziwa. Ndipo izo zimaphwanya FERPA, lomwe ndilo Phunziro la Phunziro la Banja ndi Lamulo Lopatulika.

AMY GOODMAN: Kotero, zingatheke bwanji, ngati zikuphwanya lamulo la United States?

PAT ELDER: Kodi chirichonse chingapitirire bwanji chomwe chimaphwanya malamulo a United States? Kodi bungwe la Trump lingapitirire bwanji popanda kuphwanya malamulo a United States? Iwenso, imaphwanya malamulo a United States. Ndikutha kukuuzani, ndakhala ndikukweza mutu wanga kwa zaka za 15 pankhaniyi.

Ndipo ife takhala ndi traction ena ku Maryland ndi ku New Hampshire. Ndipo ndiyeneranso kutchula dziko la Hawaii. Tinapita kwa akuluakulu a sukulu, ndipo tinapita kwa akuluakulu a malamulo, ndipo tinati, "Hey, muli ndi lamulo m'boma lanu lomwe limati simungapangitse mwana kuti asayine chiwerengero chawo cha Social Security. Simungamukakamize mwana kusiya nkhani za anthu kapena zolemba za ophunzira, popanda kuvomereza kwa makolo. Msilikali amalowa m'zipinda zodyera ndikuyesa ana awa. Mukuganiza bwanji za izi? "Ndipo olemba malamulo m'maiko atatuwa adagwirizana nafe ndipo adapereka malamulo. Tili ndi mayiko a 47 kuti apite.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndinkafuna kutembenuza mbiri ya Nikolas Cruz ndi momwe angaperekere mfuti kusukulu, ngakhale kuti simukuloledwa kutenga mfuti ku sukuluyi. Umboni wochuluka wakhala ukuwonetsa kuti Nikolas Cruz yemwe anali msilikali wa ku sukulu ya Florida ku sukulu adagwirizanitsa khalidwe limodzi ndi amuna ena ambiri omwe apanga kuwombera kwakukulu: Iye anali ndi mbiri yozunza ndi kuopseza akazi. Wophunzira wina anati The New York Times kuti Cruz anali wachiwerewere kwa mnzake wapamtima. Wophunzira wina adamuuza The New York Times iye anali mabwenzi apamtima ndi Cruz koma adamudulira iye atayamba kumutsata ndi kumuopseza mnzawo wamkazi. Ndipo The New York Times Ananenansopo munthu wina yemwe anena kuti wathamangira wophunzira wa sekondale mpaka kumulondola.

Mukulemba izo pamodzi ndi malipoti kuti m'zaka zapitazo apolisi anapita kunyumba ya Cruz ngati nthawi za 39 zothetsera nkhanza zapakhomo ndi zina. Munali ndi mnzako akuwonetsa kanema ya Cruz akuwombera mfuti kumbuyo kwake. Ndikutanthauza, mosamala, sukulu-muli ndi ana onse, monga Emma Gonzalez, yemwe adadziwika bwino kwambiri chifukwa cha kulankhula kwachisomo kwa kulamulira mfuti, akuti, "Ife tinkadziwa kuchokera kumbuyo." Ndipo iye anati, " Tiuzeni ife tikanati tauze anthu. Tinawauza anthu za Cruz. "Ndipo adati," Ngati mutapita kukafunsana, mukudziwa, yemwe ndi wothamanga, sitidzadabwa, "adatero.

Koma nanga bwanji izi, pankhani ya Nikolas Cruz kukhala membala wa osati kokha JROTC komanso gulu la zizindikiro ku sukulu, kuphunzitsidwa kuti ndiwombere bwino?

PAT ELDER: Kulondola. Chabwino, Amy, tifunikira kumbuyo pang'ono kuti tipeze chithunzi choonekera cha United Commanding Command Command. Ndilo bungwe la boma kuseri kwa zonyansa izi. Muyenera kudziwa kuti 40 peresenti ya ophunzira onse atsopano samaliza nthawi yawo yoyamba. Ndikuyenera kubwereza kuti: 40 peresenti ya ophunzira atsopano samaliza nthawi yawo yoyamba. Ndipo kuyambira pakati pa 2008 mpaka 2014, tinali ndi asilikali a 20,000-20,000 anapita AWOL. Inu mukudziwa, asilikari sakuwatsata iwo pansi. Ndipo pamene iwo atero, asirikali awa amalandira mmanja pa dzanja. Ndicho chifukwa chakuti ndi zophweka kwambiri kupita ku zipatala zosweka ndi ku sukulu zapamwamba ku Rust Belt ndi kukacheza ndi ana kumalo odyetserako zakudya ndikudyera ana mu malo osungirako magalimoto, kuti ayesetse kuti alowe nawo. Ndipo kotero, yankho langa apa ndilo kuti tiri ndi zikwi ndi zikwi za ana omwe akutsatiridwa. Sikuti amadzipereka, Amy. Ndi mphamvu yolembedwera. Ndipo ndi nthawi yomwe anthu amadziwa kuti ndizovuta.

AMY GOODMAN: Kodi mungathe kuyankhula za tanthauzo la boma la Florida ndi momwe zilili lonse JROTC pulogalamu?

PAT ELDER: Ndikhoza. Ndikhoza kukuuzani kuti, monga ndatchulira kale, potsatira maphunziro, ndiwotchuka kwambiri. Zimakhala zovuta kwambiri, Amy, kupeza ziwerengerozo JROTC pulogalamu. Tsopano, ndakhala, kwa zaka zomaliza za 10, ndikupempha FOIA kudziwa, ndi kulandira, pa kuyesedwa kwa usilikali. Ife tiribe chidziwitso icho pa JROTC pulogalamu. Kotero, ine ndiribe izo. Ine_ine ndiyenera kupemphedwa, ndipo ndi njira yayitali kuti ndiyambe kupeza chidziwitso chimenecho.

Tili ndi ziwerengero zambiri. Tikudziwa kuti pali zipatala za 3,300 kudera lonselo, kotero tikhoza kufufuza izo kuti tiwone momwe zingakhalire ku Florida. Tili ndi data pa Army, koma tilibe deta pa nthambi zitatu zina. Koma Florida ndi ovomerezeka kwa asilikali. Kuti ndikupatseni chitsanzo, tili ndi sukulu zam'mizinda isanu ndi iwiri ku Miami, mumzindawu, ndipo ana omwe ali m'masukulu amenewo adayenera kukhala pansi pa mayesero a asilikali. Masukulu onsewa anali ndi anthu angapo oposa 95 peresenti. Ndicho chinthu china apa. Pali chigawo cha mafuko kwa izi, ku mbali ya kuyesedwa kwa asilikali. Koma pali mapulogalamu. Tiyeni tinene sukulu imafuna kuthandiza ana kukonzekera SAT kapena ACT mayesero. Asilikali ali ndi yankho kwa izo. Amatchedwa kuti Success 2. Asilikali amayamba mapulogalamu ake olembera ku Florida ndi kwina kulimbana ndi nyumba ya Lego, kuyambira-kuyambira m'kalasi yachitatu. Kotero, palinso, mapulogalamu ambirimbiri a usilikali, ogwira ntchito ku sukulu iliyonse ya Florida ndi sukulu iliyonse kudera lonse.

AMY GOODMAN: Tsopano, fotokozerani chigawo cha mafuko pang'ono, Pat.

PAT ELDER: Zedi. Eya, zaka zisanu ndi zitatu zapitazo, ndinalemba malamulo ku boma la Maryland, ndipo ndinapita kwa a NAACP Elbridge James. Ndipo Elbrige ndi mnyamata wabwino. Ndipo kotero, iye anati, eya, iwe ukudziwa, ine ndinamufunsa iye, "Kodi iwe ungakhoze kuchitira umboni ku Maryland zokhudzana ndi kuyesedwa kwa usilikali?" Ndipo iye anati, "Chabwino, ndiroleni ine ndiwone malo ake apo." Ndipo, inu mukudziwa, ine ndinamupatsa iye spreadsheet ndi sukulu za 150 pa izo, mayina a masukulu. Ndipo anayang'anitsitsa pafupi masekondi a 30, Amy, ndipo adati, "Ndikuchitira umboni." Ndinati, "Izi zinali zabwino kwambiri, Elbridge." Ndipo adafotokoza kuti sanawone Walt Whitman ku Potomac. Iye sanawone Churchill ku Bethesda. Iye sanawone masukulu oyera olemera omwe amaimiridwa pa mndandanda umenewo. Ndipo ndithudi ayi. Inu mukudziwa, iwo akupita kwa Brown. Akupita ku Cornell. Iwo sakupita ku Zida. Iwo sakulemba. Ngati apita ku ankhondo, amapita ngati alonda. Kotero, pali chigawo cha mtundu wa kuyesedwa kwa ankhondo, monga pali-sizinthu chabe zamitundu, ndithudi. Ndizochuma.

Kotero, ife tikukhoza kuwona bwino, ndi deta yomwe ife tiri nayo pa kuyesedwa kwa nkhondo. Tangolandira deta kuchokera kumsasa sabata yatha. Boma la Trump linakokera mapazi ake. Kotero, ife tiri ndi deta yatsopano, ndipo ine ndidzakhala nazo izo pa webusaiti yathu, StudentPrivacy.org, mkati mwa masiku angapo. Ndizofotokoza kwambiri. Mutha kukopa dziko lanu ndikuwona chiwerengero cha ana omwe ayesedwa ndi asilikali. Ndipo mukhoza kutchula mutu wanu ndikumufunsa momwe akunenera, pa database - ana sakuyenera kuyesa-ana a 180 amatenga. Ndipo mungawafunse kuti, "Kodi mumakonda bwanji ana a 180, omwe ndi akuluakulu, kupita ku chipatala kukayesa maola anayi?"

AMY GOODMAN: Pat, mwakhala bwanji ndi chidwi pa izi? Kodi maziko anu ndi ati?

PAT ELDER: Ndili ndi zaka 16, United States idalowa ku Cambodia, ndipo ndidatsikira ku White House, ndipo ndidapemphedwa kuti ndichoke pakati pakatikati pa Lafayette Park, ndipo sindinatero, ndipo ndidamangidwa. Ndipo ichi chinali chiyambi cha changu changa. Sindingathe kukhala chete. Ndipo ndakhala wolimbirana kuyambira nthawi imeneyo. Kumayambiriro, gosh, '01, ndidapanga ziwonetsero ku Washington ndi United for Peace and Justice komanso DC Anti-War Network, yomwe ndidayambitsa. Ndipo, mukudziwa, ndafika pamfundo, pafupifupi 2004, 2005, kuti titha - titha kuyika anthu 300,000 kapena 400,000 mumsewu, Amy. Ndizovuta kwambiri. Koma sizinasinthe malingaliro oyang'anira a Bush.

Ndipo ndinakumana ndi Rick Jahnkow. Ali ndi Project YANO ku San Diego. Ndipo San Diego ndi mzinda wochuluka kwambiri wa asilikali. Mnyamatayo ndi gululo anatha kutenga mfuti yonseyo JROTC pulogalamu mumzinda wa San Diego. Kotero San Diego alibe mapulogalamu othandizira. Izi ndizochitikadi. Ntchito YANO ndi bungwe lodabwitsa, ndipo ndikupita kukaphunzira za nkhaniyi, komanso NNOMY, womwe ndi National Network Kutsutsa Militization Youth, ndi webusaiti yanga, webusaiti yathu, StudentPrivacy.org.

Kotero, kwa ine, icho chinali chinthu cha pragmatic. Ndinazindikira kuti kusintha kulikonse kwa chikondi, chifundo, kulingalira, kumayenera kupitiliza sukulu, Amy. Izo ziyenera. Ndipo tikuyenera kuyang'ana pulogalamu yachitatu yomwe ikugwiritsidwa ntchito ndi ankhondo, ndipo tikuyenera kuyang'ana pulogalamu ya Young Marines, yomwe ili ndi ana ngati kalasi yachitatu, ndipo tikufunika kulimbana nayo. Tiyenera kuthana nazo. Tiyenera kutuluka, chifukwa ichi ndi gawo la kusintha. Zidzatenga nthawi yambiri.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo pokhala ndi chiyeso chachikulu cha Trump kuika ndalama zochuluka zankhondo-ndipo ndi chinthu chomwe sitinayambe tachiwonapo, pamene ayesa kuwonjezera bajeti-kodi izi zidzakhudza bwanji mapulogalamu omwe mukukamba nawo?

PAT ELDER: Chabwino, ndizovuta, Amy. Pakalipano, ndikuganiza Lamulo lolembera lidali la asilikali a 8,000. Sizimene mukuziwona CNN, mukudziwa. Sizimene mumakumana nazo MSNBC. I_iwo ali ndi vuto lalikulu.

Ndipo, mukudziwa, ndagwira ntchito kwambiri ndi ana a asilikali a ku London, ndipo ndinagwira ntchito ndi anthu ku Geneva ponena za njira yodzifunira ana. Ndipo iwo anatenga ndime ziwiri zomwe ndinalemba, ndikuziyika poyankha ku Obama, ndipo tsopano ndi mbali ya zolemba. Zikuoneka kuti anthu a ku Geneva adamva kuti kuyesa nkhondo ndi JROTC Pulogalamuyi imaphwanya malamulowa. Amaphwanya malamulowa chifukwa Gawo la 3 la malamulo okhudzana ndi zida zankhondo limanena kuti kulandira ana osapitirira zaka za 18 kuyenera kuchitidwa motsogoleredwa ndi makolo onse. Izo siziri, ku United States of America. Ndipo boma la Obama, lomwe lili pansi pa Mlembi Clinton, linanena kuti palibe ana ayenera kuyesedwa ndi asilikali JROTC pulogalamu samakakamiza ana kapena kuyesa kulandira ana popanda kuvomereza kwa makolo.

AMY GOODMAN: Kodi $ 10,000 yomwe mumakhulupirira kuti inapita ku sekondale ya Parkland inali ngati zipangizo?

PAT ELDER: Ndiko kulondola. Kawirikawiri, iwe udzakhala-masukulu angayanjane nawo NRANdipo NRA ali ndi pulogalamu yamphamvu kwambiri yopereka ndalama. Ndizofanana ndi malonda a ndudu a Joe Cool Camel omwe adalimbikitsa achinyamata. Ndi njira yofanana yoyendera. Amazindikira kuti ngati angayambe kugawana ana ndi mfuti ali ndi zaka XMUMX ku sukulu zapamwamba, ndizopambana kupambana kwa iwo ndi ogulitsa zida. Ndipo kotero, inu mukudziwa, inu mukuwona kuti ndizochita zamwano, ndipo izo zikuwoneka ngati, kwa nthawi yayifupi, ngakhale, mpaka anthu ambiri atadziwa kuti nkhondo ikuyamba ku sukulu ya sekondale, nkhondo imayamba kumalo osungirako sukulu ya sekondale , kumene olemba ntchito amaloledwa kubisala ndi ana a zaka za 13.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo nkhani ya mwana ngati Nikolas Cruz, yemwe anali ndi mbiri yokhudza kuzunzidwa, kuzunzidwa ndi chiwawa kwa ena, atatha kupeza mfuti ndikuphunzira kukhala wodziwa kusukulu?

PAT ELDER: Chabwino, ndizoipa kuposa zimenezo. Asilikali a United States anaika zida zoopsa m'manja mwa mwanayo pamene anali m'kalasi yachisanu ndi chinayi, monga momwe zimachitira ndi zikwi zambiri padziko lonse. Tsopano, mwina adakhumudwa kwambiri, koma pali achinyamata ambiri osasunthika pa 17 ndi 18 omwe amatha kulowa nawo usilikali. Ndipo makolo nthawi zambiri amalola kuti ana awo alowe nawo ku 17. Anthu 10 pa 100 alionse a ku United States of America ndi 17. Ndizo nsonga mu OECD, ku Ulaya konse ndi dziko lotukuka. Kotero, ndizochita zoopsa.

Koma kubwerera ku Nikolas Cruz, kodi akanakhala msilikali wabwino? Mwina. Mwinamwake ngati ataloŵerera, ndipo mwinamwake ngati atakhalapo m'gululi ndipo ataphunzitsidwa ndi Marines kapena Army, ndiye kuti akanakhala msirikali wabwino kwambiri, malinga ndi chiwerengero chawo.

AMY GOODMAN: Kodi mukudziwa makamaka za mlandu wa Nikolas Cruz ndi kutenga nawo mbali JROTC ndi Cmp ndi pulogalamu ya markmanship ku sekondale ya Parkland?

PAT ELDER: Ayi, sindikutero. Mukudziwa, sindikudziwa kalikonse kuposa wina aliyense, anangobwera kuchokera kuzinthu zosiyanasiyana, Amy. Ndikudziwa mtunduwo.

Ndipo ine ndikutha kukuuzani inu, inunso, kuti ine ndayitanidwa ndi amayi mazana angapo kudutsa mu dziko. Nthaŵi zonse amayi, Amy, kawirikawiri amayi. Ndipo iwo adzandiyitana ine. Amandipeza. Ndipo iwo adzati, "Mwana wanga akusewera basketball imodzi ndi wolemba ntchito. Ndipo iye ali wovuta, ndipo iye ali ADHD, ndipo ali ndi matenda ovutika maganizo. Izi sizingatheke, Pat. Kodi tingachite chiyani za izo? "Ndipo ine ndinati," Chabwino, mukhoza kulankhula ndi mutu wanu. Mukhoza kulankhula ndi mwana wanu. Koma pokhapokha pamene 18 ya mwana wanu akulemba, palibe mayi angachitepo izi. "Ndipo kotero, nthawi zambiri ndimakhala ndi maulendo owonjezera awa, maunyolo a ma email awa, ndi amayi ambiri, omwe ali okhumudwa chifukwa akuwona ana awo kupita ku nkhondo, ana omwe amadziwa sakutha. Ndipo kotero zimabwereranso kumbuyo kwanga kuti 40 peresenti ya olembetsa atsopano sakupitirira chaka chawo choyamba.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo kodi US akufanizira bwanji mtundu wa pulogalamu ya ana, pulogalamu ya usilikaliyi, ku maiko ena?

PAT ELDER: Chabwino, ine ndikutanthauza, palibe-kudziwa kwanga, Aurose samalola olemba ntchito kusukulu. Inu mukudziwa, iwo amagwedeza mitu yawo. Iwo sangakhoze kukhulupirira izo. Iwo amatiwona ife ngati mtundu wina wa madzulo a West West. Ife ndife. Kotero, ife tiri tokha pakati pa mayiko padziko lapansi. Ndipo ndikuganiza ngati mukuwonekeranso kuti Congress ikulimbikitsanso kuti tibwezeretsenso zida zankhondo, kuphatikizapo M1911-M1911 inali mkono wam'mbali mkati mwa Vietnam. Ndi pisitomala yokha. Ndipo kotero, ndondomeko ya boma la United States ndikuti m'malo moononga zipolopolo zodzidzimutsa zokhazokha, zingakhale bwino kuti muwagulitse iwo pa chiwerengero chowombera kwa anthu a ku America. Ndilo udindo wa Congress ndi Ndondomeko Yogwirizana ndi Ufulu wa Anthu. Ndi momwe ine ndikuyankhira izo.

AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo ndi masukulu angati omwe anena kuti ayi? Ndikutanthauza, kenako ndikubwerera kumbuyo ku nkhondo ya Vietnam, zochitika zowonongeka ROTC kunja kwa sukulu. Ndipo kodi zikuwoneka bwanji lero?

PAT ELDER: N'zomvetsa chisoni. Ine ndikutanthauza, palipo, zovuta kwambiri. Palibe chotsutsana kwambiri. Makamaka, ana amatha. Ndipo ambiri, ana omwe ali m'masukulu apamwamba atavala izi JROTC yunifolomu imapatsidwa ulemu waukulu ndi ophunzira ena. Iwo amavala yunifolomu ya zida, ndipo ana ali ovomerezeka kuti aziwachenjeza iwo ndi kuwalemekeza iwo, chifukwa, pambuyo pa zonse, ife timawathandiza gulu lathu, molondola?

AMY GOODMAN: Peter Wang, wophunzira amene akuoneka kuti akuyesera kuthandiza ophunzira ena, anali kuvala yunifolomu yowonongeka pamene adaponyedwa pansi.

PAT ELDER: Ndikumva kuti asilikali akum'patsa ulemu. Kotero uwu ndi chitsanzo china cha nkhondo ya unyamata. Adzamuona ngati msilikali wathunthu kumanda kwake. Ndizoopsa. Ndine wokhumudwa. Awa ndi ana a nkhosa. Koma pulogalamuyi iyenera kuthera pomwepo, makamaka pulogalamu ya chizindikiro.

AMY GOODMAN: Chabwino, Pat Elder, tikufuna kukuthokozani chifukwa muli ndi ife, mkulu wa National Coalition kutetezera Ubwino Wophunzira, bungwe lomwe limagwirizana ndi milandu ku sukulu, wolemba Kulemba usilikali ku United States. Tidzakhudzana ndi Chidutswa kuti mwangolemba, "JROTC, Kupititsa Kwadzidzidzi kwa Asilikali ndi Kuphunzitsa Amuna Ambiri. "

izi ndi Demokarase Tsopano! Ndine Amy Goodman. Zikomo chifukwa cholowa nafe. Ngati mukufuna kupita Part 1 pa zokambirana zathu ndi Pat Elder, mukhoza kupita ku democracynow.org.