Florida Gunman Nikolas Cruz Knew Yuav Siv Dab Tsi, Ua Tsaug rau NRA thiab Tub Rog Asmeskas

AMY GOODMAN: Qhov no yog Kev ywj pheej tam sim no!, Democracynow.org, Kev Tsov Rog thiab Kev Tshaj Tawm Qhia, nrog Tshooj 2 ntawm peb kev sib tham txog JROTC thiab cov huab hwm coj shooting nyob Florida. Thaum lub lim tiam lub Florida cov tsev kawm ntawv shooting tom hav zoov tau ua rau lub teb chaws tawm tswv yim li phom thiab lub koom txoos lub koom haum ntawm National Rifle Association, tsis tshua mloog tau them nyiaj rau lwm qhov kev tua. Florida tus neeg tua neeg, 19-xyoo-laus Nikolas Cruz, yog ib tug tub koom xeeb ntawm Pawg Neeg Tawm Tswv Yim Tub Rog Reserve Training Corps. Nws hnav nws JROTC lub tsho thaum nws nqa tawm txoj kev tua neeg pov tseg, hauv kev sim ua ke nrog lwm cov menyuam kawm ntawv. Cruz kuj yog ib feem ntawm plaub tus neeg JROTC pab pawg ua haujlwm ntawm lub tsev kawm ntawv uas tau txais $ 10,000 nyiaj pab los ntawm NRA.

Peb sib tham nrog Pat Elder, tus thawj coj ntawm National Coalition los tiv thaiv Student Privacy, ib pawg uas cuam tshuam rau militarism hauv cov tsev kawm ntawv. Nws yog tus sau Kev Ua Tub Rog Txawv Tebchaws hauv Tebchaws Meskas.

Li ntawd, thawj ntawm tag nrho, Pat, qhia peb li cas JROTC ua hauj lwm hauv cov tsev kawm ntawv. Piv txwv, muaj pes tsawg tus menyuam hauv Marjory Stoneham Douglas lub tsev kawm ntawv JROTC? Dab tsi yog qhov nruab nrab hauv Teb Chaws Asmeskas?

PAT ELDER: Kuv sim nrhiav cov ntaub ntawv tawm, Amy, tab sis kuv paub tias txhua lub tsev kawm ntawv uas tuav-uas muaj JROTC cov kev zov me nyuam yuav tsum muaj qhov tsawg kawg ntawm 100 cov tub ntxhais kawm. Thiab yog lawv tsis tuaj yeem tuav cov tub ntxhais kawm ntawv 100 ob xyoos ua ke, ces qhov kev zov me nyuam yuav tsum tsis tuaj yeem.

Tam sim no, qhov no coj tau ib qho kev nthuav tswv yim rau kev ua nrog rau cov neeg tuaj yeem khiav haujlwm uas tau qhia los ntawm JROTC Cadet Command, uas tau hais tsis nyob hauv tsoomfwv nom tswv, tsis yog hauv xeev cov cai, tab sis nws tsis yog ntawm cov tsev kawm ntawv thiab tsoomfwv cov thawj coj ntawm kev kawm thiab cov thawj coj. Piv txwv li, nyob rau hauv Florida, uas yog arguably lub feem ntau tus phooj ywg lub xeev nyob rau hauv cov nqe lus ntawm militarization ntawm lub tsev kawm ntawv, Florida cai tam sim no cia ib tug neeg kawm ntawv uas siv plaub xyoos JROTC kom hloov tau biology, kev tshawb fawb txog lub cev, kev kawm siv lub cev thiab kos duab rau cov tub rog hauv kev ua tub rog. Nws yog outrageous kiag li.

AMY GOODMAN: Tos. Rov qab hais dua.

PAT ELDER: Kuv ib txwm hais kom rov hais dua. Nyob rau hauv Florida, nws yog ib feem ntawm txoj cai uas ib tug menyuam uas siv plaub lub xyoos JROTC kev pab cuam tsis tau ntxiv lawm biology, lub cev, kev kawm siv lub cev thiab kos duab. Cov kev siv plaub credits no yog siv los ntawm qhov kev siv JROTC kev pab cuam.

Saib, tom qab txoj Cai Tsis Pub Ib Tug Me Nyuam Poob Qab Tom Qab, Amy, ntau lub tsev kawm ntawv thoob plaws lub teb chaws tau ua ntau yam sib txawv raws li cov hom kev kawm thiab cov qhab nia credit rau cov tub ntxhais kawm yuav tsum tau ua, thiab uas tawm qhov JROTC qhov kev zov me nyuam. Yog li ntawd JROTC qhov kev zov me nyuam tau muaj kev tswj hwm, nyob hauv ntau thaj chaw, kom muaj peev xwm hloov chaw rau kev kawm lub cev thiab rau tsoom fwv Asmeskas thiab pej xeem. Florida mus ntxiv.

Thiab nws yuav tsum tau muab sau tseg txij li lub sijhawm no hauv Florida cov xibfwb qhia ntawv yuav tsum tau muaj daim ntawv kawm tiav BA thiab yuav tsum ua raws li cov qauv qhia ntawv. Lawv kuj yuav tsum tau kawm qib kaum ob lub xyoos. Lub JROTC Cov xibfwb qhia ntawv Askiv tsis xav tau daim ntawv qib siab. Cov koom haum nyob qhov twg? Cov koom haum nyob qhov twg nyob qhov twg?

AMY GOODMAN: Peb ntawm cov me nyuam, peb ntawm cov tub kawm ntawv hauv tsev kawm ntawv theem siab raug tua los ntawm Cruz, yog, zoo li nws, nyob rau hauv JROTC. Kuv xav kom tig mus rau Jillian Davis, leej twg hais tias nws nyob hauv JROTC nrog Florida shooting gunman, Nikolas Cruz, nyob rau hauv qib kawm cuaj.

JILLIAN DAVIS: Tsis yog feem ntau ib txwm ua los yog tsis meej pem hauv JROTC. Nws twv yuav raug ib qho-tsuas yog ib qho me ntsis tawm txog nws. Tab sis txhua tus neeg hauv qhov kev pab cuam tsuas yog me ntsis quirky, tab sis nws yog me ntsis ntxiv quirky. Thiab kuv tsuas nco ntsoov txog vaguely ntawm nws quirky li cas. Tab sis nws cia li, ntau dua los yog tsawg, tias nws tau nruj thiab nyob ntsiag to thiab paub txaj muag txog thaum twg-

SIB THAM: Kuv pom.

JILLIAN DAVIS: Thaum nws tau txhoj puab heev, nws tsis zoo li nws. Nws tsis yog nws tus cwj pwm.

SIB THAM: Auj, tiag tiag? Yuav luag ib yam li nws tau ib-

JILLIAN DAVIS: Ib tus cwj pwm txawv.

SIB THAM: Kuv pom.

JILLIAN DAVIS: Vim nws nyob ntsiag to heev.

AMY GOODMAN: Cov tub rog tau muab qhov Medal Medal rau Heroism rau peb JROTC cov tub rog uas tuag hauv Parkland, Florida, shooting: 15-xyoo Peter Wang thiab ob tug 14-xyoo-laus kawm, Martin Duque thiab Alaina Petty. Wang reportedly tuag thaum tuav lub qhov rooj qhib rau lwm tus hauv nws lub neej. Tus Neeg Laus, yog tias koj tuaj yeem tham txog cov menyuam kawm ntawv uas koom nrog JROTC?

PAT ELDER: OK. Ua tsaug rau koj Amy. Zoo, thawj zaug, nws yog ib qho txaus ntshai heev, thiab kuv ntxhov siab heev ntawm qhov no. Kuv tau muab ntau lub sijhawm rau kuv lub neej los sim siv cov phom tawm ntawm cov menyuam no txhais tes. Tam sim no, nws ua rau kuv nco txog ib phau ntawv sau los ntawm Lieutenant Colonel David Grossman. Nws hu ua Killology. Thiab nws ua ntaub ntawv rau hauv Paducah, Kentucky, uas yog shooting nyob hauv tsev kawm ntawv lub tsev qiv ntawv. Nkawd muaj yim leej me nyuam nyob hauv ib lub voj kev thov Vajtswv, thiab Michael Carneal tuaj rau hauv lub tsev qiv ntawv, thiab nws muaj ib rab yaj phom nrog yim ncig, thiab nws tau tua txhua tus me nyuam nyob rau hauv lub taub hau ib zaug. Thiab Grossman hais txog nws yog "kev ua tiav zoo."

Thiab kuv coj qhov ntawd vim-vim hais tias cov tub rog siv cov kev ua si video-muaj ib qho Tebchaws Asmeskas cov tub rog video game-nyob rau hauv thiaj li recruit cov me nyuam. Nws yog ib qho ntawm cov kev ua si zoo tshaj plaws nyob rau Amelikas hnub no, thiab nws yog ib qho free download. Cov no yog cov neeg ua ntej shooter ua si. Thiab kuv ntseeg hais tias nws yog tub rog qhov kev ua si kom muab cov ntiv tes me me ncig ntau yam ua, txawm tias lawv yog virtual los yog tiag, li sai tau. Yog li ntawd, peb muaj ntau txhiab tus 13 xyoo rau hauv cov tsev kawm ntawv theem siab thoob plaws tebchaws Amelikas uas raug muab ua kom raug tua tuag hauv lawv cov tsev kawm ntawv theem siab. Thiab yog hais tias lawv tsis tua hauv lawv lub tsev kawm ntawv theem siab, ces lawv tua nyob rau hauv cov chaw lag luam tua hauv zos uas muaj cov hmoov txhuas muaj plua plav thiab lawv kuj tau khiav los ntawm Kev Ua Lag Luam Kev Xam Xaj thiab Lub Chaw Rifle. Nws yog ib qho kev pab cuam uas yuav tsum tau nres.

AMY GOODMAN: Yog li, kuv xav nrog koj tham ntxiv txog qhov no, thiab peb sib tham txog qhov no Part 1, kev sib raug ntawm cov NRA thiab cov kev qhia marksmanship, uas yog ib qho kev ua ntawm JROTC, txoj cai? Kuv txhais tau tias, koj muaj Nikolas Cruz, uas yog ib tug ntawm plaub tug tswv cuab ntawm qhov kev qhia marksmanship no. Ib tug ntawm cov menyuam kawm ntawv tau hais tias nws tau tua zoo heev.

PAT ELDER: Zoo nkauj heev. Zoo, kuv xav tias yuav tsum xav paub ntau ntxiv rau lub koom haum NRA nyob rau hauv tag nrho cov ntawm no, thiab qhov no yog qhov kev pabcuam pejxeem, lossis CMP. Tam sim no, tus CMP nyob hauv Anniston, Alabama. Tsis zoo li lwm lub teb chaws thoob qab ntuj uas rhuav tshem lawv txoj kev ua tub rog tawm haujlwm, Cov Kev Lag Luam Siv Xam Xaj yuav rov qab mus rau Asmeskas pej xeem. Yog li cas cov tub rog ua tub rog yog cov tub rog muab, ua khoom plig, rau Cov Neeg Lag Luam Kev Siv Thaj Tsam Xaj thiab Cov Pistols tam sim no, thiab cov raug muag. Yog li, Cov Neeg Xam Xaj Kev Lag Luam (Civilian Marksmanship Program) muaj cov cuab yeej ntawm $ 160 lab. Nws yog ib qho chaw ntiag tug. Thiab nws yog chartered los ntawm Congress mus muag recycled los yog Army rau riam phom rau Asmeskas pej xeem ntawm luv nqi.

Lub koom haum ntawd, Txoj Kev Xam Xaj Asmeskas Tsav Xwm (Civilian Marksmanship Program), tswj cov kev pab cuam hauv cov tsev kawm ntawv. Lawv yog cov uas yuav tsum tau tsim cov kev cai hais txog kev rho tawm ntawm cov riam phom, cov txheej txheem kev nyab xeeb thiab qhov teeb meem hais txog cov hlau lead. Cov Kev Lag Luam Siv Lub Xeeb (Civilian Marksmanship Program) txo qis rau cov hmoov txhuas thiab ua raws li kev cai lij choj NRA hauv kev thov kom tsis txhob ua rau koj thiab tsis muaj teeb meem nrog cov hlau lead hauv cov plag tsev thiab cov hlau lead hauv cov cua.

Yog li ntawd, nws yog Kev Lag Luam Siv Xam Xaj (Civilian Marksmanship Program) uas yog lub koom haum rau lub Npe Rifle. Thiab xav paub ntau ntxiv yuav tsum tau them nyiaj rau hauv Cov Kev Xam Xaj Meskas. Yog tias koj mus rau qhov ntawd website, koj tuaj yeem mus rau qhov chaw khiav qiv tracker, thiab koj tuaj yeem luam tawm qws ntawm txhua tus neeg JROTC cov kev pabcuam nrog kev qhia marksmanship thoob plaws hauv Tebchaws Meskas.

AMY GOODMAN: Thiab tham ntau ntxiv txog cov hlau lead.

PAT ELDER: Qhov tshij, ua tsaug, Amy, vim hais tias nws tau ua kom pom tseeb. Kuv yeej xav tias qhov teeb meem no yuav tsum muaj resonating. Zoo, thaum twg ib tug neeg tua txhuas pellet los ntawm rab phom ntev, nws tawm tag nrho cov hmoov txhuas ua tau ua ntej. Thiab yog li ntawd, qhov hmoov txhuas, cov feeb no yog tshuab tuaj rau saum cua. Thiab, ntawm chav kawm, qhov cua tshuab hauv cov tsev kawm siab tsis tau teem caij los saib xyuas cov cua ntawd. Thiab yog li nws nyob ntawm txoj kev twg qhov cua qhov system tshuab. Qee zaum, nws yog tshuab ua lub ntsej muag ntawm cov me nyuam. Cov hmoov txhuas tuaj yeem ntawm qhov kawg ntawm rab phom, hauv pem teb, thiab cov hmoov txhuas tseem tuaj yeem txeeb tau ntawm cov phiaj tom qab.

Thiab qhov kev pabcuam pejxeem Marksmanship Program tau tshaj tawm cov txheej txheem heev, muaj kev tswjfwm, uas tsis paub ntau nyob rau hauv cov tsev kawm ntawv thoob plaws lub tebchaws. Nyob rau hauv qhov tseeb, muaj cov duab, luam tawm ntawm peb website, los ntawm Flint, Michigan, uas tau qhia cov menyuam yaus taug kev ntawm kev tua kab mus rau lub hom phiaj. Thiab kuv muaj ntau cov yeeb yaj duab, ib yam nkaus, uas qhia tau tias, tsis yog los hauv YouTube-nws tsis siv ntau ntau los mus download tau tej no-uas qhia meej meej tias cov me nyuam kawm ntawv hauv tsev kawm ntawv tau ua txhaum txoj cai. Thiab thaum lawv taug kev hauv chav gym lossis thoob plaws hauv chav noj mov, lawv muab-lawv taug txhuas ntawm lawv cov khau, ntawm lawv txhais tes, ntawm lawv ko taw, ntawm lawv cov khaub ncaws, mus rau hauv lub tsev. Thiab peb muaj cov kev tshawb fawb, los ntawm ob pawg Swedish thiab German pawg, uas qhia qhov tseeb sib txuas ntawm kev tua tsuas yog ua hmoov txhuas thiab ntxiv cov ntshav txhuas.

Lub caij no, txoj kev pabcuam hauv Lub Xeeb Txawm hais tias nws zoo thiab tias txhua yam koj yuav tsum ua yog kom cov menyuam tsis txhob noj tib lub sijhawm thiab lawv ntxuav lawv txhais tes. Meanwhile, NIOSH qhia peb tias ntxuav koj txhais tes tsis txaus kom thiaj li ntxuav tau cov hmoov txhuas. Cov Kev Xam Xaj Kev Cai Them Nrab kuj tseem qhia cov tsev kawm ntawv kom siv cov trisodium phosphate kom thiaj li ntxuav tau cov chav hauv chav dej thiab chav pluas noj tom qab txhua qhov kev tua. Qhov no tsuas yog ua tsis tiav. Thiab nws yuav tsum tau hais, dhau lawm, uas TSP yog ib tug carcinogen thiab tsis tshua muaj teeb meem rau cheeb tsam.

AMY GOODMAN: Thiab yog tias koj tuaj yeem rov hais dua, Pat, leej twg tau nyiaj CMP, Txoj Kev Xam Xaj Meskas? Thiab tom qab ntawd, nrog tag nrho cov ntawm no-JROTC, CMP, NRA txoj kev koom tes-uas hu cov koob tshuaj txhaj, thiaj li hais lus, hauv tsev kawm ntawv?

PAT ELDER: Tau txais nws.

AMY GOODMAN: Tus thawj saibxyuas ua haujlwm licas?

PAT ELDER: OK, ua tsaug rau koj qhov lus nug. Txoj Kev Lag Luam Siv Txuj Ci Txawv Tebchaws muaj keebkwm tiag tiag, Amy. Nws mus tag nrho txoj kev rov qab mus rau 1903. Cov tub rog no tau sau tseg tias cov tub rog tau tawm tsam cov tub rog ua ntej lub sijhawm ntawd-nws pom cov tub rog tsis tshua muaj neeg ceebtoom, vim lawv xav tias Amelikas cov tub ntxhais hluas uas tau tawm tsam Mev American War yuav zoo dua. Thiab yog li ntawd, Congress tau tsim kom muaj kev tsim ntawm Txoj Kev Lag Luam Siv Xam Xaj mus rau kev cob qhia ntau pua pua txhiab tus menyuam hauv kev tua riam phom, yog li ntawd, thaum muaj lwm yam kev ua tsov ua rog, neeg Amelikas yuav kawm zoo dua mus tua. Zoo nkauj heev.

Nyob rau hauv 1996, muaj lus tim khawv los ntawm Paul Simon thiab Frank Lautenberg, ob tug neeg siab phem, uas hu ua tus CMP ib qho "boondoggle" thiab "khoom plig rau NRA. "Qhov ntawd yog lub xyoo uas CMP tsis yog ib caj npab ntawm Congress. Nws tsis yog lub koomhaum pejxeem, thiab qhov ntawd yog qhov chaw ua haujlwm ntiag tug. Thiab raws li xws li, nws tau muaj kev tso cai rau bankroll $ 160 lab nyob rau hauv tus kheej traded kev nyab xeeb los ntawm muab pov tseg Army Army riam phom.

Tam sim no, mus rau lwm qhov ntawm koj qhov lus nug, lub tsev kawm ntawv yog tus thawj tswj hwm. Cov thawj xibfwb hauv cov tsev kawm ntawv yog qhov kawg ntawm kev ua haujlwm. Lawv ua tau zoo heev-lawv muaj kev ywj pheej thiab amazing kev ywj pheej hauv lawv lub tsev kawm ntawv. Tab sis qhov kev zov me nyuam nws tus kheej yog khiav los ntawm tus neeg ceg ntawm cov tub rog. Yog li, yog tias koj muaj ib qho kev kawm Marine Corps, ces koj muaj plaub phau ntawv kawm Marine Corps, rau cov kawm qib kaum ob, qib kaum ob, cov laus thiab cov laus. Nws yog txhua yam hauv online. Thiab cov me nyuam kawm keeb kwm los ntawm Marine Corps kev xav. Thiab muaj cov tam sim no uas tso cai rau hom kev qhia no kom hloov tau tus txheej txheem kawm.

Yog li, los teb koj cov lus nug, raws li tus thawj coj nyob rau hauv tsev kawm ntawv, Cov Neeg Tshaj Lij Muab Kev Ncaj Ncees. Tus tub rog qhia tus neeg ntawd yog tus neeg sawv cev, tab sis nws yog ib qho lus nug, Amy: Puas yog peb yeej muaj cov tub rog kawm tiav ntawm cov tsev kawm ntawv? Koj paub, yog li ntawd lub luag hauj lwm yog ib qho kev sib tham. Tab sis raws li txoj cai, nws yog tus thawj xib fwb uas yog tus saib xyuas cov tsev kawm ntawv. Lawv tsuas ntxuav lawv cov tes.

Nws yog tib yam nrog cov tub rog kuaj. Peb muaj 700,000 cov menyuam thoob plaws lub teb chaws hauv 14,000 cov tsev kawm ntawv uas ua qhov no ASVAB kev ntsuam xyuas, thiab tag nrho cov ntaub ntawv raug muab rau cov tub rog nrhiav neeg ua haujlwm-plaub teev ntawm kev sim, Social Security naj npawb-ua txhaum tsoomfwv cov cai thiab tsoomfwv cov cai, thiab cov ntaub ntawv qhia txog pejxeem. Thiab nws yog ib qho kev xeem tub rog uas tau muab. Thiab los ua qhov taw tes sai li sai tau, tus thawj xibfwb tso cai rau cov ntaub ntawv no mus rau cov tub rog, ua txhaum txoj cai ceev kev ntiag tug. Thiab cov tub rog sau cov ntaub ntawv ncaj qha los ntawm cov me nyuam. Lub xeev Maryland thiab lub xeev New Hampshire muaj cov cai, thiab cov cai lij choj tau hais tias cov tub rog tsis tuaj yeem siv cov ntaub ntawv no yam tsis tau kev tso cai los ntawm niam txiv. Peb muaj ntau tshaj li ib txhiab lub tsev kawm ntawv, Amy, uas xav kom tub ntxhais kawm ntawv yuav tsum tau ua tub rog qhov kev ntsuam xyuas, thiab tag nrho cov ntaub ntawv raug muab rau niam thiab txiv-muab rau cov neeg nrhiav neeg tsis muaj niam thiab txiv paub txog nws. Thiab ua txhaum FERPA, uas yog Tsev Neeg Txoj Cai Kev Kawm Ntawv thiab Txoj Cai Ntiag Tug.

AMY GOODMAN: Yog li, nws yuav ua li cas, yog nws ua txhaum txoj cai hauv Tebchaws Meskas?

PAT ELDER: Yuav ua li cas yuav ua tau dab tsi mus ua txhaum txoj cai lij choj ntawm Tebchaws Meskas? Tus Trump tswj xyuas yuav ua li cas tsis ua txhaum txoj cai lij choj ntawm Tebchaws Meskas? Nws, dhau, ua txhaum cov cai ntawm Tebchaws Meskas. Kuv tuaj yeem qhia rau koj, Kuv tau muab kuv lub taub hau coj tawm tsam lub hauv siab rau 15 xyoo ntawm qhov teeb meem no.

Thiab peb tau muaj qee lub tsheb khiav hauv xeev Maryland thiab hauv lub xeev New Hampshire. Thiab kuv kuj yuav tsum hais txog lub xeev Hawaii. Peb tau mus rau tom tsev kawm ntawv cov thawj coj, thiab peb tau mus rau cov tsim cai, thiab peb tau hais tias, "Hav, koj muaj ib txoj cai hauv koj lub xeev uas hais tias koj yuam tsis tau tus menyuam kos npe rau lawv tus lej Xaus Saus. Koj tsis tuaj yeem yuam tus me nyuam muab cov ntawv qhia txog pejxeem lossis cov ntaub ntawv teev menyuam kawm ntawv, tsis tas muaj kev tso cai ntawm niamtxiv. Cov tub rog mus rau hauv koj chav noj mov thiab kuaj cov menyuam no. Koj xav li cas txog qhov ntawd? "Thiab cov nom tswv hauv peb lub xeev tau pom zoo nrog peb thiab dhau txoj cai. Peb tseem muaj 47 hais kom mus.

AMY GOODMAN: Kuv xav kom tig mus rau Nikolas Cruz cov ntaub ntawv thiab ua li cas nws muaj peev xwm tau muab phom rau hauv tsev kawm ntawv, txawm tias koj tsis raug coj mus phom rau lub tsev kawm ntawv ntawd. Ntau thiab ntau cov pov thawj tau tshwm sim los ntawm qhov qhia tias tsev kawm ntawv Florida tus tub rog Nikolaus Cruz sib koom ib txoj kev zoo nrog ntau tus txiv neej uas tau coj tawm kev tua neeg tua: Nws muaj cov ntaub ntawv ntawm kev tsim txom thiab hem poj niam. Ib tug tub ntxhais kawm hais Lub New York Times tias Cruz yog tsim rau nws ex-girlfriend. Lwm tus tub ntxhais kawm hais Lub New York Times nws tau raug phooj ywg nrog Cruz tab sis hlais nws tom qab nws pib mus tom qab thiab hem ib tug phooj ywg poj niam ntawm nws. Thiab Lub New York Times kuj hais tawm ib tug neeg hais tias nws mus tom qab ib tug tub ntxhais kawm ntawv siab mus txog qhov chaw ntawm kev txhom nws.

Koj muab tso nrog rau cov ntawv tshaj tawm uas dhau los ntawm tub ceev xwm mus rau Cruz lub tsev yam zoo li 39 lub sijhawm los daws cov teeb meem ntawm kev sib ntaus hauv tsev thiab lwm yam teeb meem. Koj muaj tus neeg nyob ze uas qhia video ntawm Cruz co tes ua ib rab phom rau hauv nws qaum tsev. Kuv txhais tau tias, lub tsev kawm ntawv-koj muaj tag nrho cov me nyuam, zoo li Emma Gonzalez, uas tau paub zoo txog kev hais lus rau kev tswj hauv rab phom, hais tias, "Peb paub ntawm txoj kev rov qab." Thiab nws hais tias, qhia rau peb tias peb yuav tsum tau hais rau tib neeg. Peb tau qhia rau cov neeg txog Cruz. "Thiab nws hais tias," Yog tias koj yuav nug, koj paub, tus noog tua neeg yog, peb tsis xav tsis thoob, "nws hais.

Tab sis dab tsi txog qhov no, thaum nws tuaj cuag Nikola Cruz ua ib tug tswv cuab ntawm tsis yog JROTC tab sis kuj yog pawg pab pawg me me ntawm tsev kawm ntawv, raug qhia kom zoo tshaj plaws?

PAT ELDER: Txoj cai. Zoo, Amy, peb yuav tsum rov qab nrhiav me ntsis kom tau ib daim duab meej meej ntawm Tebchaws Asmeskas Tub Rog Txwv Tub Rog Kev Ua Haujlwm. Qhov no yog tsoomfwv tus tswv tom qab no abominations. Koj yuav tsum paub tias 40 feem pua ​​ntawm tag nrho cov neeg ua haujlwm tshiab tsis tiav lawv thawj lub sijhawm. Kuv yuav tsum rov hais dua tias: 40 feem pua ​​ntawm cov neeg ua haujlwm tshiab tsis tiav lawv thawj zaug. Thiab thaum lub caij 2008 mus rau 2014, peb muaj 20,000 tib neeg-20,000 cov tub rog mus AWOL. Koj paub, cov tub rog tsis yeem khiav lawv. Thiab thaum lawv ua, cov tub rog tau txais ib lub ncuav ncaw ntawm lub dab teg. Yog vim li no, nws yooj yim mus rau cov tsev kawm ntawv tawg qis thiab rau cov tsev kawm ntawv qib siab hauv Rust Rust thiab nrog cov menyuam nyob hauv chav noj mov thiab ua rau cov menyuam nyob hauv qhov chaw nres tsheb, kom lawv tuaj koom. Thiab yog li ntawd, kuv qhov lus teb ntawm no yog qhov uas peb muaj txhiab txhiab tus me nyuam uas raug mob siab. Nws tsis yog ib qho dag zog pab dawb, Amy. Nws yog ib lub zog nrhiav neeg ua haujlwm. Thiab nws yog lub sij hawm cov neeg to taub tias insidious npaum li cas nws yog.

AMY GOODMAN: Koj tuaj yeem tham txog qhov tseem ceeb ntawm lub xeev Florida thiab ua li cas mas nws yog nyob rau hauv tag nrho JROTC kev pab cuam?

PAT ELDER: Kuv tau. Kuv tuaj yeem qhia rau koj tias, raws li kuv tau hais ua ntej, raws li qhov kev qhia ntawv txhawj xeeb, nws yog qhov nrov heev. Nws yog tiag tiag nyuaj, Amy, tau cov txheeb cais ntawm cov JROTC qhov kev zov me nyuam. Tam sim no, kuv muaj, rau 10 lub xyoos dhau los, thov FOIA cov ntaub ntawv, thiab tau txais nws, ntawm kev ua tub rog. Peb tsis muaj cov ntaub ntawv hauv JROTC qhov kev zov me nyuam. Yog li, kuv tsis muaj nws. Kuv muaj-nws yuav tsum tau thov, thiab nws yog ib txoj hauv kev los pib cov ntaub ntawv no.

Peb muaj cov leb loj. Peb paub hais tias muaj txog 3,300 cov tsev kawm ntawv thoob plaws hauv lub tebchaws, yog li ntawd peb tuaj yeem siv cov lus qhia tias ntau npaum li cas nyob hauv Florida. Peb muaj cov ntaub ntawv hais txog pab tub rog, tab sis peb tsis muaj cov ntaub ntawv hauv peb ceg. Tab sis Florida tseem ceeb heev rau cov tub rog. Yuav muab ib qho piv txwv, peb muaj xya lub tsev kawm ntawv hauv nroog Miami, lub nroog, thiab cov menyuam hauv cov tsev kawm ntawv raug tseev kom zaum ntawm cov tub rog qhov kev xeem ntawv. Tag nrho cov tsev kawm ntawv muaj cov neeg tsawg tsawg tshaj li 95 feem pua. Tias 's lwm qhov ntawm no. Muaj kev sib cais rau qhov no, rau cov tub rog kev tshuaj xyuas ntawm nws. Tab sis muaj cov kev sim ntsuas. Cia peb hais tias lub tsev kawm ntawv xav pab cov menyuam npaj rau SAT los yog lub ACT kev ntsuam xyuas. Cov tub rog muaj lus teb rau qhov ntawd. Nws hu ua March 2 Success. Cov tub rog pib nws cov kev pabcuam nrhiav neeg ua haujlwm nyob rau hauv Florida thiab lwm qhov nrog Lego lub rooj sib tw, rau-pib rau qib peb. Yog li, muaj, dua, ntau ntau cov kev ua tub rog, cov haujlwm hauv txhua lub tsev kawm ntawv Florida thiab txhua lub tsev kawm ntawv thoob plaws lub tebchaws.

AMY GOODMAN: Tam sim no, piav qhia txog kev sib txawv ntawm haiv neeg, Pat.

PAT ELDER: Kom paub meej. Zoo, yim xyoo dhau los, kuv tau sau cov cai hauv xeev Maryland, thiab kuv tau mus rau NAACP tus thawj coj, Elbridge James. Thiab Elbrige yog ib tug txiv leej tub zoo. Yog li ntawd, nws hais tias, yog-koj paub, kuv nug nws, "Koj puas tau ua tim khawv hauv Maryland txog kev ua tub rog?" Thiab nws hais tias, "Zoo, cia kuv saib lub database ntawd." Thiab, koj paub, kuv tau muab nws ib daim ntawv khom nqi nrog 150 cov tsev kawm ntawv rau nws, lub npe ntawm cov tsev kawm ntawv. Thiab nws ntsia nws txog 30 vib nas this, Amy, thiab nws hais tias, "Kuv mam li ua tim khawv." Kuv hais tias, "Qhov ntawd yog ceev nrooj, Elbridge." Thiab nws piav qhia tias nws tsis pom Walt Whitman hauv Potomac. Nws tsis pom Churchill hauv Npexathas. Nws tsis tau pom cov tsev kawm ntawv muaj nyiaj dawb los sawv cev ntawm cov npe ntawd. Thiab ntawm chav kawm tsis. Koj paub, lawv yuav mus Brown. Lawv mus rau Cornell. Lawv tsis mus rau pab tub rog. Lawv tsis muaj npe. Yog lawv mus rau hauv Army, lawv mus ua tub ceev xwm. Yog li ntawd, muaj kev sib txawv ntawm cov tub rog rau kev ua tub rog, raws li muaj-nws tsis yog ib qho kev ntxub xwb, tau kawg. Nws yog qhov zoo tshaj plaws.

Yog li, peb tuaj yeem pom tseeb meej, nrog cov ntaub ntawv uas peb muaj rau kev xeem tub rog. Peb tsuas tau txais cov ntaub ntawv los ntawm cov tub rog lub lim tiam dhau los. Cov thawj coj ntawm Trump tau rub nws ob txhais taw. Yog li, peb muaj cov ntaub ntawv tshiab, thiab kuv yuav muaj nyob rau ntawm peb lub vev xaib, StudentPrivacy.org, tsis pub dhau ob peb hnub. Nws tseem qhia heev. Koj tuaj yeem rub koj tus kheej lub xeev thiab pom cov menyuam ntawm cov tub rog uas tau sim. Thiab koj tuaj yeem hu xov tooj rau koj tus thawj xibfwb thiab nug nws tias nws hais li cas, nws hais tias, ntawm cov ntaub ntawv-cov menyuam tsis tas yuav tsum tau xeem-180 cov menyuam coj nws. Thiab koj tuaj yeem nug lawv, "Cas lub ntiaj teb ua li cas koj thiaj tau txais 180 cov menyuam, uas yog cov laus dua, mus rau tom lub chav noj mov kom kuaj plaub-caug zaug?"

AMY GOODMAN: Pat, ua cas koj thiaj li txaus siab rau qhov no? Dab tsi yog koj keeb kwm?

PAT ELDER: Zoo, thaum kuv muaj 16 xyoo, Tebchaws Asmeskas nkag mus hauv Qhab Meem, thiab kuv tau nqis mus rau hauv Tsev Dawb, thiab kuv tau thov kom tsiv ntawm lub chaw nruab nrab ntawm Lafayette Park, thiab kuv tsis tau, thiab kuv tau raug ntes. Thiab nov yog pib ntawm kuv qhov activism. Kuv cia li tsis tuaj yeem zaum ntsiag to. Thiab kuv twb yog ib tug activist puas tau txij li. Thaum ntxov, gosh, '01, Kuv tau teeb tsa ua qauv qhia hauv Washington nrog ob leeg United for Peace and Justice thiab DC Anti-War Network, uas kuv tau tsim. Thiab, koj paub, Kuv tau mus rau qhov kev xav, xyoo 2004, 2005, tias peb muaj peev xwm - peb tuaj yeem tso 300,000 lossis 400,000 tus neeg ntawm txoj kev, Amy. Nws yog khoom tiag tiag. Tab sis nws tsis hloov Bush txoj cai tswj hwm txoj cai.

Thiab kuv tau ntsib nrog Rick Jahnkow. Nws yog nrog Project YANO nyob hauv San Diego. Thiab San Diego zoo nkauj npaum li cas hauv nroog ua tub rog. Tus txiv leej tub thiab cov pab pawg no tau tswj hwm tag nrho cov phom tawm ntawm JROTC hauv nroog San Diego. Li ntawd, San Diego tsis muaj cov kev pabcuam qhuab qhia. Tias 's heev ua tiav. Qhov project YANO yog ib lub koom haum zoo heev, thiab nws yog qhov chaw rau kev kawm txog qhov teeb meem no, thiab NNOMY, uas yog National Network Opposing Militarization ntawm Cov Hluas, thiab kuv lub website, peb lub vev xaib, StudentPrivacy.org.

Yog li ntawd, rau kuv, nws yog ib qhov pragmatic tshaj plaws. Kuv pom tau hais tias kev sib tw ntawm kev hlub, kev hlub tshua, ntawm kev xav, tau mus rau chav kawm los ntawm cov tsev kawm ntawv, Amy. Nws yuav tsum. Thiab yog li ntawd peb yuav tsum tau saib xyuas qhov kev qhia qib thib peb uas ua los ntawm cov tub rog, thiab peb yuav tsum tau saib ntawm Young Marines qhov kev pabcuam, uas muaj cov menyuam yau li cov tub ntxhais kawm qib peb, thiab peb yuav tsum tau ntaus rog. Peb yuav tsum tau hais rau nws. Peb yuav tsum tawm nws, vim qhov no yog ib feem ntawm lub kiv puag ncig. Nws yuav tsum coj ib tiam ntawm lub sijhawm.

AMY GOODMAN: Thiab nrog Trump loj heev los ua kom muaj nyiaj ntau heev rau cov tub rog-thiab nws yog ib yam uas peb tsis tau pom dua ua, raws li nws sim kom nthuav cov tub rog nyiaj txiag-yuav ua li cas rau cov kev pabcuam koj tham txog hauv tsev kawm ntawv?

PAT ELDER: Zoo, nws yog ib tug npau suav phem, Amy. Txoj cai tam sim no, kuv xav tias txoj kev hais ua haujlwm yog tseem txog 8,000 cov tub rog luv luv. Nws tsis yog ib yam uas koj pom CNN, koj paub. Nws tsis yog ib yam dab tsi uas koj tuaj dhau MSNBC. Nws yog-lawv muaj lub heck ntawm ib qho teeb meem.

Thiab, koj paub, Kuv tau ua haujlwm ntau nrog Cov Tub Hluas Kev Tuaj Tshaj Thoob Ntiaj Teb nyob rau hauv London, thiab kuv kuj tau ua haujlwm nrog cov neeg nyob hauv Geneva txog kev ywj pheej ntawm cov menyuam yaus hauv kev sib haum xeeb. Thiab lawv tau coj ob peb nqe lus uas kuv tau sau tseg, thiab muab tso rau hauv lawv cov lus teb rau Obama cov thawj coj, thiab yog li tam sim no nws yog ib feem ntawm cov ntaub ntawv rau pej xeem. Thaj, cov neeg nyob hauv Geneva pom tias cov tub rog kuaj thiab JROTC qhov kev pab cuam ob leeg ua txhaum cov kev cai no. Lawv ua txhaum raws tu qauv vim hais tias Tshooj 3 ntawm cov kev xaiv yeem ntawm cov menyuam yaus hauv kev sib ntaus sib tua muaj kev ywj pheej hais tias cov neeg ua haujlwm rau cov menyuam tsis tau muaj hnub nyoog ntawm 18 yuav tsum tau ua tiav nrog niam txiv / txivneej tso cai. Nws tsis yog, hauv Tebchaws Meskas. Thiab Obama cov thawj coj, nyob rau hauv Secretary Clinton, thov hais tias tsis muaj cov me nyuam yuav tsum tau coj ib tug tub rog xeem thiab hais tias lub JROTC qhov kev zov me nyuam tsis yuam cov me nyuam los yog sim nrhiav cov me nyuam tsis muaj kev tso cai los ntawm niam txiv.

AMY GOODMAN: Qhov $ 10,000 koj ntseeg tau mus rau lub tsev kawm ntawv Parkland high school yog nyob rau hauv daim ntawv ntawm cov khoom siv?

PAT ELDER: Qhov ntawd yog lawm. Feem ntau, koj yuav muaj-cov tsev kawm ntawv yuav hu rau NRA, Thiab cov NRA muaj ib qhov kev pabcuam zoo heev rau kev pub nyiaj tawm. Nws yog zoo li cov zoo li Joe Cool Camel luam yeeb rau cov menyuam yaus. Nws yog tib hom kev mus kom ze. Lawv paub tias yog lawv tuaj yeem pib muab kev sib txuas cov me nyuam nrog cov phom thaum muaj hnub nyoog 13 hauv cov tsev kawm ntawv theem siab, nws yog ib qho kev sib tw yeej rau lawv thiab rau cov neeg lag luam ntawm kev ua tsov rog. Thiab yog li, koj paub, koj pom tias nws yog ib qho ua tsis txaus ntseeg, thiab nws zoo li, rau lub sijhawm luv luv, qee zaum, kom ntau tus neeg tuaj koom nrog kev xav tias kev ua tsov ua rog pib hauv tsev noj mov hauv tsev kawm ntawv, kev tsov kev rog pib hauv high school nres tsheb ntau ntau , qhov chaw nrhiav neeg ua haujlwm raug tsocai nrog 13 xyoo.

AMY GOODMAN: Thiab qhov teeb meem ntawm ib tug me nyuam yaus zoo li Nikolas Cruz, uas tau hais meej txog keeb kwm kev thab plaub, kev tsim txom thiab ua phem rau lwm tus, ua kom tau txais ib rab phom thiab kawm ua tus cim qhia ntawv hauv tsev kawm ntawv?

PAT ELDER: Zoo, nws yog qhov phem tshaj qhov ntawd. Cov tub rog hauv Teb Chaws Asmeskas tau ua kom muaj kev sib ntaus sib tua rau hauv tus me nyuam txhais tes thaum nws nyob hauv qib 9, vim nws nrog ntau txhiab lwm tus thoob plaws hauv teb chaws. Tam sim no, nws yuav tau muaj cov ntaub ntawv huab, tab sis muaj ntau cov hluas tsis muaj kev xav tsis zoo ntawm 17 thiab 18 uas tswj hwm koom nrog cov tub rog. Thiab niam txiv feem ntau txaus siab tso cai rau lawv cov menyuam tuaj koom 17. Kaum feem pua ​​ntawm cov tub rog nrhiav neeg hauv United States of America yog 17. Qhov ntawd yog saum hauv OECD, thoob teb chaws Europe thiab tsim lub ntiaj teb. Yog li, nws yog ib qho kev ua phem heev.

Tab sis tau rov qab mus rau Nikola Cruz, nws puas tau ua ib tug tub rog zoo? Tej zaum. Tej zaum yog tias nws tau koom nrog, thiab tej zaum yog tias nws tau ua tub rog thiab tau kawm los ntawm Marines lossis Pab Tub Rog, nws yuav tau ua ib tug tub rog zoo, hauv lawv qhov kev kwv yees.

AMY GOODMAN: Koj puas paub hais txog Nikolas Cruz cov ntaub ntawv thiab nws kev koom tes hauv JROTC thiab CMP thiab qhov kev qhia marksmanship hauv Parkland high school?

PAT ELDER: Tsis yog, kuv tsis paub. Koj paub, Kuv tsis paub dab tsi tshaj li lwm tus, nyuam qhuav sau los ntawm ntau qhov chaw, Amy. Kuv paub hom.

Thiab kuv tuaj yeem qhia rau koj, ib yam nkaus, uas kuv tau raug hu los ntawm ntau pua leej niam hauv teb chaws. Nws yog ib txwm niam, Amy, tsis tshua muaj leej txiv. Thiab lawv yuav hu rau kuv. Lawv pom kuv. Thiab lawv yuav hais tias, "Kuv tus me nyuam tab tom ua si nrog ib tus neeg ua si nrog tus neeg ua haujlwm. Thiab nws yog dyslexic, thiab nws yog ADHD, thiab nws muaj kev ntxhov siab. Qhov no yuav tsis tshwm sim, Pat. Peb yuav ua li cas txog nws? "Thiab kuv hais," Zoo, koj tuaj yeem tham nrog koj tus thawj xib fwb. Koj tuaj yeem tham nrog koj tus menyuam. Tab sis thaum koj tus me nyuam 18 thiab lawv kos lawv lub npe, nws tsis muaj leej twg yuav ua li cas rau nws. "Thiab, ntawm ntau, kuv yuav muaj cov lus sib tham no, cov txuas ntxiv email chains, nrog rau ntau tus leej niam, txhais tau hais tias, leej twg yog exasperated vim lawv pom lawv cov me nyuam mus rau kev ua tsov ua rog, cov me nyuam uas lawv paub yuav tsis kav. Thiab yog li nws tau rov qab rau kuv cov lus tshaj tawm ntawm qhov tseeb tias 40 feem pua ​​ntawm cov neeg ua haujlwm tshiab tsis ua nws yav dhau los lawv thawj xyoo.

AMY GOODMAN: Thiab piv txwv li cas hauv Teb Chaws Asmeskas no qhov kev zov me nyuam rau cov me nyuam, txoj kev kawm tub rog, rau lwm lub teb chaws?

PAT ELDER: Zoo, kuv txhais tau tias, tsis muaj leej twg-rau kuv paub, cov Europeans tsis pub neeg nrhiav neeg tuaj rau hauv cov tsev kawm ntawv. Koj paub, lawv co taub hau. Lawv tsis ntseeg nws. Lawv pom peb li qee yam ntawm cov tsiaj qus ntawm West. Peb yog. Li ntawd, peb yog tib leeg ntawm cov teb chaws hauv lub ntiaj teb. Thiab kuv xav tias yog koj saib, dhau ntawm Congress qhov kev hais tias peb rov ua dua, tias peb tau siv cov tub rog siv riam phom, xws li M1911-tus M1911 yog sab caj npab thaum lub sijhawm Nyab Laj. Nws yog ib rab yaj phom yob phom. Thiab yog li, txoj cai ntawm Teb Chaws Asmeskas tsoom fwv yog qhov uas tsis yog ua kom cov kev siv lub tshuab tua neeg tsis zoo, nws yuav zoo dua los muag cov nqi rau cov neeg pej xeem Asmeskas. Qhov no yog lub luag haujlwm ntawm Congress nrog Txoj Kev Lag Luam Siv Xam Xaj (Civilian Marksmanship Program). Tus ntawd yog li cas kuv teb tias.

AMY GOODMAN: Thiab muaj pes tsawg lub tsev kawm ntawv tau hais tias tsis muaj? Kuv txhais tau tias, thiab tom qab ntawd rov qab mus rau lub sijhawm ua rog rau Nyab Laj teb, ua kom muaj kev kub ntxhov ROTC tawm ntawm cov tsev kawm ntawv. Thiab qhov ntawd zoo li cas hnub no?

PAT ELDER: Nws tu siab. Kuv txhais tau tias, nws muaj ntau yam, me me heev. Muaj me ntsis tsis kam. Loj tshaj plaws, me nyuam yaus yog tus cwj pwm. Thiab rau feem ntau ntawm cov menyuam, cov menyuam uas nyob hauv cov tsev kawm ntawv qib siab uas hnav cov ntawv no JROTC Cov khaub ncaws hnav zoo ib yam los ntawm lwm tus tub ntxhais kawm ntawv. Lawv hnav cov ris tsho ua rog, thiab cov menyuam yaus muaj kev xyiv fab rau lawv thiab hwm lawv, vim, thaum kawg, peb txhawb peb cov tub rog, puas yog?

AMY GOODMAN: Peter Wang, tus menyuam kawm ntawv uas nws xav tau pab lwm tus tub ntxhais kawm ntawv, tau hnav ib lub tsho thaum nws raug tua.

PAT ELDER: Kuv nkag siab cov tub rog tau muab nws daim ntawv qhuas tag nrho. Yog li ntawd, qhov no yog lwm qhov piv txwv txog kev ua tub rog. Lawv yuav kho nws yog ib tug tub rog uas tau puv npo hauv nws qhov chaw faus. Nws yog horrendous. Kuv tu siab. Cov no yog cov menyuam yaj. Tiam sis qhov kev zov me nyuam yuav tsum tau muab txiav tam sim ntawd, thiab qhov tshwj xeeb tshaj yog qhov kev qhia marksmanship.

AMY GOODMAN: Zoo, Pat Elder, peb xav ua tsaug rau koj nrog peb, tus thawj coj ntawm National Coalition los tiv thaiv Student Privacy, ib lub koom haum uas tswj kev ua tub rog hauv tsev kawm ntawv, tus kws sau ntawv Kev Ua Tub Rog Txawv Tebchaws hauv Tebchaws Meskas. Peb mam li txuas rau daim tias koj nyuam qhuav tau sau, "JROTC, Cov Tub Rog Ua Tub Rog thiab Kev Cob Qhia ntawm Pawg Neeg Tua Tsiaj. "

Qhov no yog Kev ywj pheej tam sim no! Kuv yog Amy Goodman. Tsaug rau koom peb Yog tias koj xav mus rau Part 1 ntawm peb kev sib tham nrog Pat Elder, koj tuaj yeem mus rau hauv democracynow.org.