E hoʻohewa i ka pūʻali koa

mai ka ʻO ke kuʻina, Iune 18, 2020

He pāʻālua kēia o kahi hanana o ka Nā Podcast i kūkulu ʻia e hōʻike ana iā Bernie Sanders 'kākāʻōlelo kulekele ʻōlelo aʻoaʻo ʻo Matt Duss me Mehdi Hasan.

KA MOKUʻUINA HUIPUʻIA Ua ʻoi aku ka nui o ka makeke kaua nui o ka honua, ka ʻoi no 15 pakeneka o nā kumukūʻai federal āpau a kokoke i ka hapalua o nā hoʻopau ʻae a pau. Hoʻololi pinepine nā pelekikena o nā ʻaoʻao ʻelua i ka hoʻokele waiwai o Pentagon. ʻO Sen. Bernie Sanders o Vermont kekahi o nā leo nui loa i ka Kuleana ma ka hoʻopaʻapaʻa ana no ka hōʻea nui; ʻO kāna mea e loio i ke kumu kūʻai o lehulehu, ʻo Matt Duss, ua komo iā Mehdi Hasan e hana i ka hihia no ka hōʻole ʻana i ka Pentagon.

Matt Lop: ʻO kēia Kaua Honua honua i ka weliweli, e mālama ana i ko ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa Iho, ua hoʻoponopono i kā mākou aupuni kūloko, ua alakaʻi ʻia ko kālaiʻī politika i ka hoʻokūkū nui, a ua hoʻopuka ʻo ia i nā mea a mākou e ʻike ai i ko mākou mau alanui - ua hoʻopuka ʻo ia iā Donald Trump!

[Hoʻokomo Musical.]

Mehdi Hasan: Welina ʻia e Deconstructed, ʻO wau ʻo Mehdi Hasan.

I ka pule i hala, ua kamaʻilio mākou me ka mākaʻi ʻana i nā mākaʻi. I kēia pule: ʻO ka manawa e hoʻonāukiuki ai i ka pūʻali koa?

MD: Hiki iā mākou ke mālama i ko mākou poʻe me ka liʻiliʻi aʻe i ko mākou kālā i kēia manawa? Hiki loa iā mākou.

MH: ʻO ia kaʻu mea hoʻokipa i kēia lā, ʻo Matt Duss, nā loiloi kulekele kiʻekiʻe haole iā Senator Bernie Sanders.

Akā ʻo ke hōʻoki ʻia nei i ke kālā kaua puaʻa nui a ʻAmelika, e lawe ana i ka Pentagon ikaika loa, he moemoeā holomua holomua a he manaʻo paha ua hiki mai ka manawa?

E hele i kahi palapala wikiwiki.

Nīnau 1: He aha ka hale keʻena nui loa i ka honua?

Pane: ʻO ke Pentagon. ʻEono a me ka hapa miliona mau kapuai kūhā o ka papahū - ʻekolu mau manawa ka nui o ka papahele o ka papahele o ka hale aupuni ʻo Aupuni. Nui nui ia.

Nīnau 2: ʻO wai a ʻo wai ka mea ʻoihana ma ka honua?

ʻLelo aku: Eia hou naʻe, ʻo Pentagon, me ʻekolu miliona mau limahana. Hele mai ka pūʻali koa Kina ma ka lua o ka noho me ʻelua miliona mau limahana, a aia ʻo Walmart ma ke kolu.

Nīnau 3: ʻO wai ka keʻena pale i loaʻa ka ʻoihana pūʻali koa nui loa ma ka honua?

ʻLelo aku: Ua kuhi ʻoe iā ia, ʻo Ke Keʻena ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa, ʻo Pentagon!

ʻAe, he nui loa ia ma kahi āpau e hiki ai iā ʻoe ke noʻonoʻo e pili ana iā ia - ma mua o ka nui. Ua kū nei ke kumukūʻai koa US i ka $ 736 biliona, ʻo ia hoʻi, ʻo ka Pentagon ka nui o ke kālā ma ka pale me nā ʻāina he 10 e hiki mai ana i ka honua - i hui pū ʻia. ʻO kaʻoiaʻiʻo, aneane ʻehā mai kēlā me kēia $ 10 i lilo i ka pūʻali koa, ma ka honua, i kēlā me kēia makahiki, e hoʻopau ʻia ma ka pūʻali koa US. He ʻano ʻoluʻolu kēlā!

Nūhou: ʻO "Defund ka mākaʻi" ua hele mai kahi mea hoʻonāukiuki i kahi kumuhana koʻikoʻi o nā kūkākūkā pili kulekele.

MH: Ke kamaʻilio nei mākou i kēia mau lā i ka hoʻopiʻi ʻana i nā mākaʻi, a pēlā pū. No laila ʻaʻole anei mākou manawa e kamaʻilio e pili ana i ka hōʻole ʻana i ka Pentagon, a me ka pale ʻana i ka pūʻali koa?

E like me ka hoʻokele ʻana o nā mākaʻi, aia ke US i kahi hōʻaiʻē pūʻali koa ponoʻī. A e like me ka hana a nā mākaʻi, hoʻihoʻi ka lilo ʻana i ka poʻe ʻAmelika i ke kālā i hiki ke ʻoi aku ka maikaʻi ma mua o nā wahi ʻē aʻe.

Ua hōʻike ʻo Washington Post i ka makahiki i hala aku inā inā ua ʻo ʻAmelika ke like me ka hapa o kona GDP ma ka pale ʻana e like me ka hapa nui o nā ʻāina ʻEulopa, "hiki ke hāʻawi kālā i ke kulekele mālama keiki, e hoʻolōʻihi i ka inikua olakino ma kahi o 30 miliona mau poʻe ʻAmelika i nele, a ʻole. Hāʻawi i ka waiwai nui ma ka hoʻoponopono ʻana i ka ʻoihana loiloi o ka lāhui. "

A ʻaʻole kēia o kekahi ʻano o ka ʻano leʻa, liberal social-democratic fantasy - ka manaʻo e ʻoki ana i ka hoʻolimalima ʻana o ka pūʻali koa a me ka hoʻohana ʻana i ke kālā e hāʻawi kālā ai i nā mea'ē aʻe, ʻoi aku ka maikaʻi o nā mea ʻole. Eia ke ʻano o ka Pelekikena Repubalika Dwight Eisenhower, he luna nui ma mua e ke ʻano, ma ke ʻano he "Chance for Peace" i 1953:

ʻO Pelekikena Dwight D. Eisenhower: ʻO kēlā me kēia pu i hana ʻia, ke kaua āpau i kūkulu ʻia, kēlā me kēia pā pōhaku i hōʻike ʻia, ma ke ʻano hope loa, kahi ʻaihue mai nā mea e pōloli ana a ʻaʻohe i hānai, nā mea anuanu a ʻaʻole nā ​​lole.

MH: Ma kāna kamaʻilio huakaʻi 1961, ʻōlelo nui aku ʻo Eisenhower i ka mana a me ka noho aliʻi ʻana o ka ʻenehana ʻoihana koa o ka US, e koi mau ana no ka pale aku ʻana e nui aku - a ʻo ke kaua hou aku:

DDE: I loko o nā ʻaha kūkā o ke aupuni, e mālama pono kākou e kūʻē i ka loaʻa ʻana o ka mana i manaʻo ʻole ʻia, i ʻimi ʻia a i ʻole i makemake ʻia, e ka ʻāhui kaua-ʻoihana.

MH: Akā, ua hāʻule nā ​​ʻōlelo lola a Ike ma nā pepeiao pepeiao. ʻO ka wehewehe ʻana i ka maluhia e manaʻo ʻia he hopena ma ka hopena o ke Kaua Cold i hoʻopaʻa ʻole ʻia. Ma lalo o George W. Bush ua loaʻa iā mākou ke Kaua Honua i ka Terror. A ua lawe paha ʻo Barack Obama i kekahi mau hōʻemi haʻahaʻa i ka ʻoihana pale holoʻokoʻa akā e like me ka hōʻike ʻana o ka nūpepa ʻo ʻAmelika i ka makahiki 2016: "Ma ke ʻano o kāna pelekikena [...] ua hāʻawi aku ka pūʻali koa US i ke kālā hou aʻe i nā hana pili i ke kaua ma mua o ia i lalo o Bush: $ 866 biliona ma lalo o Obama i hoʻohālikelike ʻia me $ 811 biliona ma lalo o Bush. "

I kēia lā, ma lalo o Trump, ke hoʻohana ʻia ana ʻo ʻAmelika Hui PūʻIa i nā pūʻali koa ma mua o kēlā me kēia manawa mai ka Kaua Honua II, me ka hoʻokaʻawale pōkole o ka lele ʻana o Iraq i ka makahiki 2000. ʻO ke kaua Iraq, ma ke ala, ua kūʻai ke kumukūʻai ʻo ʻAmelika ma mua o $ 2 trilyion, ke War on Terror, ma ke ʻano he ʻoi aku ma mua o $ 6 trilyion, a me ka makeke o Pentagon, ma mua o ka ʻumi makahiki, ua wānana ʻia ka ʻoi aku o ka ʻoi aku ma mua o $ 7 trillion.

No ke aha mai? No ke aha e lilo ai i ka ʻoihana ma ka ʻoihana i hiki ʻole ke hoʻoponopono ʻia, ʻaʻole hiki ke helu i nā piliona a me nā piliona kālā o ke kālā, ʻo ia ke kuleana nui a me ka make a puni ka honua - nui ka make o ka ʻeleʻele a me brown i nā wahi e like me ka Middle East a i ka Horn o Aferika?

Inā ʻoe e kākoʻo i ka hōʻole ʻia o nā mākaʻi, a ʻo ka hoʻokumu ʻana ʻo Black Lives Matter i hoʻokumu ʻia ʻo Patrisse Cullors i ka hihia, no ka mea e nani a me ka hilinaʻi - ma kēia hōʻike, i ka pule hope wale nei. Inā ʻoe e kākoʻo i ke kīlohelohe ʻana i nā mākaʻi, e like me kaʻu e hana ai, a laila pono ʻoe nō hoʻi e kākoʻo i ka hoʻoneʻe ʻana i ka Pentagon, me ka hōʻaʻe i ka pūʻali koa. ʻAʻole he-brainer.

A ke ʻōlelo nei au ʻaʻole wale nō ma ka ʻaoʻao nui o Tom Cotton, e hoʻouna mākou i pūʻali koa, The New York Times op-ed, a i ʻole he 30,000 National Guardsmen a me 1,600 mau pūʻali koa ikaika a me ka pēpē i lawe ʻia mai e kōkua i ke kānāwai kūloko. paʻa - pinepine pinepine - pana i ke kū'ē i ka kūʻē kūʻē i ka hoʻokūkū o ka lehulehu ma nā ʻāina i hala.

ʻ saylelo aku au e pale i ka pūʻali koa no ka mea he maloʻo paʻa ʻo ʻAmelika, me ka piʻi ʻole o ka mana o ka lehulehu, i hoʻopilikia ʻia e ka racism institutional, a hoʻopiha ʻia me nā kāne i mākaukau e ʻike i ka hapa nui o ka poʻe ʻeleʻele a me ka keʻokeʻo e hālāwai nei lākou ma waho me ka hoʻoweliweli. . ^ E Ha yM.

E hoʻomanaʻo: ʻaʻole hiki ʻole ke kaua kaua a ka lāhui kaua o ka US me ka hoʻokūkū ʻole, me ka ʻike ʻole ʻole ʻia o ke ao nei. Inā makemake ʻoe e hoʻokuʻi a hoʻohewa paha i kahi ʻāina ʻē i piha i ka poʻe ʻeleʻele, a i ʻole keʻokeʻo paha, e like me ka pūʻali koa ʻAmelika e like me nā manawa a pau, pono ʻoe e hoʻowalewale i kēlā mau kānaka, e hoʻomāliʻi iā lākou, e hōʻike aku ana i ka poʻe i hope e pono ke hoʻopakele a i ʻole e hōʻino ʻia ka poʻe i ka pono e pepehi ai.

ʻO ka Racism ka lilo a ua lilo loa ia i mea nui i ka kulekele aupuni haole a US, he alakaʻi koʻikoʻi o ia mea. Hoʻomanaʻo wau i kēia laina scathing i hana i nā pōʻai ma hope o ka pepehi ʻia ʻana o Rodney King i kā camera ma nā luna LAPD i 1991: "Inā ʻo ʻAmelika ʻo ka mākaʻi o ka honua, a laila ʻo ka honua ʻo Rodney King."

I kēia manawa, ua mālama ʻia he pūʻali koa he 200,000 ʻAmelika ma waho o kahi o nā ʻāina he 150. Loaʻa iā 800 mau pūʻali koa US mua ma 80 mau ʻāina. No ka hoʻohālikelike wale nō, ʻo nā aupuni ʻē aʻe 11 o ka honua nei i loaʻa pū kekahi waihona ma nā ʻāina ʻē, he 70 mau waihona ma waena o lākou - ma waena o lākou!

A me ka 'ana o ka pūʻali koa Amerika a, ʻae, i lawe mai i ka maluhia a me ka ʻimi i kekahi mau wahi o ka honua, e ʻae wau i kēlā, ʻoiaʻiʻo. Aka, lawe pū mai nō hoʻi i ka make a me ka luku a me ka haunaele i nā wahi ʻē aʻe o ka honua. Wahi a kahi noiʻi e ko Ke Kulanui o Brown i ka makahiki i hala, ua ʻoi aku ma mua o 800,000 mau kānaka i pepehi ʻia a he hopena pololei o nā kaua alakaʻi ʻia US a i ke kaua e hoʻokau ana ma Iraq, ma Afghanistan, ma Pakistan mai 9/11 - ma mua o kahi hapakolu o lākou he poʻe kānaka kūloko. . ^ E Ha yM. ʻOi aku ka nui o nā haneli he mau haneli he mau tausani i ka make ʻana ma muli o nā kaua e pili ana i ka pūʻali koa US - mai ka maʻi ʻana, nā pilikia ʻalane, nā pōʻino o ka hana.

Eia ma US, ma ka Le hema a ma ka liʻiliʻi loa, kamaʻilio pololei mākou e pili ana i nā mākaʻi pōkole a me ka loaʻa ʻole o nā pana kīmiʻi kaua a me ka make Ua ʻike mākou i nā inoa o Walter Scott, a me Eric Garner, a me Philando Castile, a me Tamir Rice, a ʻoiai, ʻo George Floyd. Eia naʻe, ʻaʻole maopopo mākou i nā inoa ʻo nā kāne, ka wahine, a me nā keiki, ua hoʻomake a make ʻole ʻia e ka pūʻali koa ʻAmelika ma nā hanana nunui ma nā wahi like me Shinwar, Kandahar, a me Maywand ma Afghanistan; a i kahi paha e like me Haditha, Mahmoudiya, a me Balad i Iraq. ʻAʻole maopopo mākou i nā inoa o ka poʻe Afghans i hōʻeha ʻia ma ka hale paʻahao Bagram Air Base ma Afghanistan, a i ʻole i ʻaʻaka ʻia ka Iraqis ma ka hale paʻahao o Abu Ghraib ma Iraq.

Ua uku ʻia he mau ʻauhau ʻauhau ʻAmelika no kēlā me ka make ʻole a no kēlā mau mea kīʻaha; uku mākou i kēia mau kaua, mau loa - no ka hoʻonaninani kūpaʻa kolokolo, hōʻino nui ʻia - a eia hoʻi nīnau mākou i nā nīnau no kekahi o ia mea. Hiki iā ʻoe ke hoʻopaʻapaʻa ko ka pale ʻana i ka pūʻali koa he hana wikiwiki hou a pono hoʻi ma mua o ka pale ʻana i ka mākaʻi - a he hihia hou aʻe paha a paʻa paha. Eia kekahi la ma koʻu nānā ʻana, me ka pale ʻana i nā mākaʻi a me ke pale ʻana i ka pūʻali koa e hele lima.

[Hoʻokomo Musical.]

MH: ʻOiai ke kau nei i ka pālākiō Pentagon skyrocketing, e kāhea ana no ka hōʻoki ʻana i nā koina pūʻali koa US, ʻo ia kekahi o nā kaola nui ma Wakinekona DC; ke ʻōlelo nei ʻo mea mea i loko o kahi kūlanakauhale e kūpaʻa ana ka hapa nui o Democrats ma hope o Republicans a koho i ka hoʻonui nui ʻana i ka hoʻolilo ʻana i kēlā me kēia makahiki.

Ua kū kahi hoʻokahi kālai'āina mai ka hapa nui o ke koina i kēia pilikia: Bernie Sanders, senator kūʻokoʻa mai Vermont, runner-up i ka hoʻokūkū no ka koho balota pelekikena Demokrat i loko o 2016 a me 2020, ka mea hoʻokahi o nā lālā o ka kongoa i ka nani kūlike i ke koho ʻana i nā piʻi i loko o ka waihona ʻoihana pale.

Eia ke ʻōlelo mai nei ʻo ia i ka makahiki i hala ma kahi hālāwai neʻe i kēlā pilikia.

ʻO Senador Bernie Sanders: Akā ʻaʻole wale ʻo Wall Street a me nā ʻoihana lapaʻau a me nā ʻoihana ʻokoʻa. A e ʻae ʻoe iaʻu i kekahi ʻōlelo e pili ana i kekahi mea i kamaʻilio liʻiliʻi ʻia e ka poʻe, a ʻo ia hoʻi: pono mākou e lawe i ka Military Industrial Complex. [Ke hauʻoli nei a me nā ʻoniʻoni.] ʻAʻole mākou e hoʻomau i ka lilo ʻana o $ 700 biliona i hoʻokahi makahiki i ka pūʻali koa. Makemake mākou a makemake mākou i kahi pale ikaika. Akā ʻaʻole pono mākou e hoʻolilo ma mua o nā lāhui he 10 i hiki mai. [Nā leo koa.

MH: ʻO kaʻu malihini i kēia lā ʻo Matt Duss, luna ʻōlelo aʻoaʻo ma waena o ko Senin Bernie Sanders. Ua hōʻike ʻia ʻo Matt me ke kōkua ʻana iā Senaker Sanders e hoʻomau i ka hōʻoia ʻana i nā kūlike no ka politika o nā haole a me ka noʻonoʻo ma waena o ka makahiki 2016 a me 2020, a ua komo hoʻi ia i ka paipai ʻana i ka hana hou ʻana i ka hui ʻo Netanyahu ma ʻIseraʻela no nā ʻāina a Palestine i noho ai a me ke aupuni Saudi Arabia ma Yemen ma ko lakou neoneo paakai ʻO ia he pelekikena mua o ka Foundation no ka Hikina Hikina Hikina, he mākaʻi koʻikoʻi no ka militarization o ke aupuni haole US, a ua hui pū mai ʻo ia iaʻu i kēia manawa mai kona home ma Wakinekona, DC.

Matt, mahalo no ka hiki ʻana ma Deconstructed.

MD: Aloha nui maanei. Mahalo, Mehdi.

MH: Manaʻo paha ʻoe i ka ʻike o ka poʻe koho balota ʻAmelika i ka mea e pili ana i ka hoʻokaʻawale ʻana i nā hōʻike kālā no ka hapalua o nā hoʻopau ʻae a pau ma ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa, e ʻoi aku ka nui o ka Pentagon i ka pale ʻana ma mua o nā ʻāina he 10 e hiki mai ana i ka honua?

MD: Makemake au e ʻōlelo ʻaʻole, ʻaʻole lākou i ʻike i kēlā mau kikoʻī. Manaʻo wau e ʻike lākou i ka hoʻopauʻana i kā mākou, akā ʻo lākou - manaʻo wau ʻaʻole paha lākou i ʻike i kēia mea, a he mea ia i hana nui ai e Senatoa Sanders ma luna o nā makahiki i mea e wehewehe pono ai i ka mea hiki iā mākou ke lilo hoʻolilo, ʻike ʻoe, he hapa o kēia kālā e loaʻa ai no ka poʻe ʻAmelika, inā he hale, ʻona ola, nā hana -

MH: ʻAe.

MD: - hoʻonaʻauao.

Ke manaʻo nei au ʻo ia ke kamaʻilio makemake ana ʻo ia a me nā mea holomua ʻē aʻe e loaʻa ana i kēia manawa, ka mea nui loa, e like me kā mākou e ʻike nei, ʻike ʻoe, ʻike maopopo ʻia i nā mahina heʻe i hala, me ke alo o kēia papa ʻino, pehea ka mālama kālā ʻana o kā mākou palekana i nā makahiki i hala. ua nui wale nā ​​wahi hewa.

MH: ʻO kekahi manawa manaʻo wau e uku hou aku ka poʻe ʻAmelika inā e hoʻi hou ka keʻena Defence i ke Keʻena ʻOihana Kaua, e like me ka mea i ʻike ʻia a hiki i ka makahiki 1947 a ua loaʻa iā mākou ma kahi kākau ʻōlelo no ka hana kaua ma kahi o kahi kaukana o ka pale.

MD: ʻAʻole, manaʻo wau aia kekahi mea i kēlā. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo ka pale, ʻo ia hoʻi, ʻaʻole e makemake e pale iā lākou iho? Pono mākou e pale aku iā mākou iho i ka wā e pono ai mākou; ke kaua koʻikoʻi ka kaua.

Akā no nā kaukani mau makahiki i hala aku nei me ka World War on Terror, ke hoʻomau mau nei ka piʻi ʻana o ka pale kālā, a, hoʻohui pū i kēlā, nā hana o ka contingency o nā ʻāina i ka mea nui, ʻike ʻoe, he hoʻomau ka hila kālā o ka makahiki e ʻāpono ʻia e ʻae i ka Keʻena ʻoihana i ʻO ka US ke hana pono i kēia mau pūʻali koa i mea e hoʻokaʻawale i nā puke, a e kau wale i kēia ma hope o kā mākou mau keiki a me kā mākou mau moʻopuna i uku.

MH: Ehia nā kumukūʻai o nā haole ʻē aʻe o ʻAmelika, ʻo Matt, ka mea i alakaʻi ʻia e ka militarization o nā kulekele ʻē aʻe? A pehea ka nui o kēlā pūʻali koa i alakaʻi ʻia e ka racism, i waena o nā mea ʻē aʻe?

MD: Ma, noʻonoʻo wau he ʻelua ʻaoʻao o kēlā nīnau. He koʻikoʻi nui lāua.

Ke manaʻo nei wau, ʻike ʻoe, e hoʻi ana i ka, ʻo ka Pelekikena Eisenhower, i kona haʻalele ʻana i ka keʻena, ua ʻōlelo kaulana ʻo ia no ka piʻi ʻana o ka "Military Industrial Complex," i ka huaʻōlelo āna i hoʻopaʻa ai. A ʻo ka manaʻo nui, ʻoiai ʻoe i ʻike i kēia mau mea pale mea ikaika e lilo i mea ikaika a keu loa, a me kēia ʻano, ua ʻike nō ʻoe, ʻo ke kumu ʻoihana hoʻomakeka e ulu ana a puni nā ʻAmelika, ʻike nō ʻoe, ke ulu nei ka hana honua, e hiki mai kēia mau pono e hāpai i ka hoʻokaumaha i luna ka hoʻokumu ʻana o ke kulekele haole a me nā kulekele haole o US, a e ʻōlelo wau he mau mea ia, ua ʻike ʻoe, i kahi ʻoi aku ke ʻano a me ke ʻano he pōʻino aku hoʻi ma mua o koʻu manaʻo he makaʻu ʻo Eisenhower iā ia iho.

MH: ʻAe.

MD: ʻIke ʻoe, ʻo ka ʻāpana ʻelua o ia - hoʻolohe, ua hoʻokumu ʻia ʻo ʻAmelika iā ʻoe, ua ʻike ʻoe, ʻokoʻa kekahi, ʻike ʻoe, i ka manaʻo o ka nui o ka paʻakai keʻokeʻo. He ʻāina kēia i hoʻokumu ʻia ma, me ka noho luhi - i kūkulu ʻia ma nā kua o nā kānaka Aferika i hoʻolako ʻia. Ua lōʻihi mākou i nā hana no kēia pilikia; mākou e lawelawe mua nei.

Loaʻa iā mākou nā mea holomua, ʻaʻohe kānalua: ka ʻĀina Kūʻai Kūwila, ka kuleana e koho ai, ua hana mākou i nā hoʻomaikaʻi. Akā ʻo ka mea nui, ke komo nei i loko o ka moʻomeheu ʻAmelika, ʻo Polika ʻAmelika, a no laila ke hoʻolilo nei i loko, i mea e noʻonoʻo ʻia ai i loko o kā mākou kuleana kūwaho, i kā mākou kulekele pale.

Ua ʻike ʻoe, i ka ʻōlelo ʻana, he mea kūpono hoʻi ia i ka ʻike ʻana i ka pūʻali koa US ʻo ia kekahi o nā mea lanakila a me ka hōʻike mua o ka hoʻohui ʻana. Eia nō naʻe, e pane i kāu nīnau, manaʻo wau e ʻike mākou i ka nui o ka hoʻokūkū e hōʻike ana i nā kulekele haole ʻAmelika a ua ʻike wale ʻia kēia me nā World War on Terror, ka mea i pana ʻia e nā kolohe hihiu e pili ana i ka poʻe Muslim, e pili ana i nā Arabs. ʻike, makaʻu kauering e pili ana i - nā mea āpau, ka lawaiʻa iā Sharia, hiki iā ʻoe ke holo i lalo i ka papa inoa, āu e ʻike nei, kēia mau mea, ʻike ʻoe, i kēia mau ʻano hoʻolaha hoʻolaha ʻoi loa.

A ke manaʻo nei wau he mea kēia a Senatoa Sanders i ʻōlelo ai no ka nui. Inā ʻoe e hoʻi i kāna, ʻo ia ka ʻāpana āna i kākau ai i Kaukaʻi i kahi makahiki i hala aku nei, kahi āna i kamaʻilio ai e pili ana i ka hoʻopau ʻana i ke kaua pau ʻole, ʻaʻole wale ke hoʻopau ʻana i kēia mau hana lehulehu a kākou i hana ai i nā makahiki he mau makahiki i hala iho nei, akā no ka hoʻomaopopo ʻana i ke ala. ʻO ʻoe, ke ʻike nei ʻoe, kēia World War on Terror, e mālama ana i ko ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa i ka wā kaua e hoʻomaʻamaʻa honua nei, ua hoʻoponopono i kā mākou aupuni kūwaho; ua alakaʻi i ka politika politika o, ka ʻoi nui a me ka hoʻomehala, i nā kaiāulu ʻilihune, a ua hoʻopuka ʻo ia i nā mea a mākou e ʻike ai i ko mākou mau alanui, ua hoʻopuka ʻo ia iā Donald Trump.

MH: ʻAe.

MD: ʻIke ʻoe, no laila maopopo ka ʻike, ʻo ia kēia, ʻo Donald Trump he huahana o kēia mau ʻano, ʻaʻole ia ke kumu o lākou.

MH: A e ʻike maʻalahi, no kā mākou mea hoʻolohe, ua ʻōlelo ʻoe iā Senaker Sanders. Me ke lālā o ko ka hale hale, he ʻelena kūʻēʻē ʻo ia i ke kaua ma Iraq i ka 2003. Akā ua balota ʻo ia no ka komo ʻana o Afghanistan i ka makahiki 2001 -

MD: ʻAe.

MH: - e noho pū ana me mākou, ʻaʻole i pau ka kaua o Afghan, ua nui ka poʻe i lilo i ko lākou ola ma laila, e hoʻomau ana i ka pio o ko lākou ola ma laila, ka nui o ke koko a me ka waiwai, ʻoiai ka hele ʻana o ka huaʻōlelo, ua pio ma laila. Manaʻo wau e mihi ʻo ia i kēlā koho i kēia manawa, pololei wau i ka ʻōlelo ʻana?

MD: Well, ua ʻōlelo ʻo ia i loko o kekahi o nā hoʻopaʻapaʻa mua, kahi i ʻōlelo ai ʻo ia, i kēia manawa, ke nānā nei -

MH: ʻAe, ua hoʻomaikaʻi ʻo ia iā Barbara Lee no ka pane wale ʻana ma ke kū'ē.

MD: Kū pololei. A makemake ʻia ʻo ia e hoʻomaikaʻi nui. He leo leo wale nō ia e ʻike ai i [ka] hāʻawi ʻana i ka hoʻokele Bush i kahi hōʻoia haki ʻole e alakaʻi ai i kahi kaua ʻole ʻole, ke neʻe nei mākou i loko o kahi ākea a maikaʻi ʻole. A ua pololei ʻo ia i kēlā mea; Ua hoʻomaopopo ʻo Senatoa Sanders i kēlā. Ke manaʻo nei au, ʻoi aku ka nui o nā poʻe ke ʻike i kēlā.

Hiki iā ʻoe, ke manawa, ma hope o 9/11, i koʻu manaʻo, aia nō, ʻike ʻoe nō, he ʻoiaʻiʻo nō kekahi, no ka neʻe ʻana iā al Qaeda, akā ke hana nei i kēia wehewehe kuʻuna o, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo War on Terror, a me kēia -

MH: ʻAe.

MD: - ka ʻae ʻana ʻaʻole i hope a wehewehe ʻole i ka pau ʻana no ka pau ʻana o ka mana, no ka mea, ua pōʻino no ko mākou ʻāina a no ka nui o nā kaiāulu a puni ka honua.

MH: ʻAe, aia kēia manawa wau e hoʻomanaʻo ai i ka manawa ʻo Afghanistan ke kaua maikaʻi a ʻo Iraq hoʻi ke kaua maikaʻi ʻole.

MD: Akau.

MH: A manaʻo wau i kēia manawa ua maopopo mākou, 19 mau makahiki ma hope mai, he ʻelua kaua maikaʻi ʻole ma ko lākou mau ʻaoʻao. I kou nana ana, e Matt, a ke uhi nei oe a e hana ana i keia mea ma keia kulanakauhale no kekahi manawa, owai la ka mea e hewa ai i ka pahee o ke kulana o ke aupuni Amerika? He haikahi hopohopo? Ke ʻimi wale nei paha nā poʻe politika i ka nānā ʻole? ʻO ia nō ka mea i hoʻokaʻawale ʻia e ka Military Industrial Complex āu i ʻōlelo ai, e nā Lockheed Martin a me Raytheon o kēia ao?

MD: ʻIke, manaʻo wau he mau mea āpau o luna. ʻO kaʻu manaʻo, ʻo kēlā me kēia mea i pāʻani i kāna māhele. ʻO wau makemake, ʻike maoli nō ʻoe, ua kamaʻilio mua mākou e pili ana i ka Hui Pūʻena Koa Military, ʻike ʻoe, ka mea hiki iā mākou ke pālahalaha aku, ʻike ʻoe, e komo pū me ka Military Industrial-Think Tank Complex; ka nui o kēia mau manaʻo manaʻo e hāʻawi kālā ʻia nā ʻenehana e nā mea ʻenehana pale aku, e nā ʻoihana nunui lehulehu paha -

MH: ʻAe.

MD: - a i ʻole, ma kekahi mau hanana, e ʻike ʻoe, e ʻike ʻoe i nā ʻāina ʻē aʻe e makemake nui e paʻa iā mākou i kā lākou ʻāina a hana i kā lākou hana no lākou. No laila ʻokoʻa kēlā o ka paʻakikī.

Manaʻo wau aia i ke ʻano pāpaʻi a, ʻike ʻoe, maʻalahi wale, makaʻu wale nā ​​poʻe kālai'āina e ʻike i ka nāwaliwali i ka palekana a palupalu paha i ka weliweli. A ʻoluʻolu nō paha ʻoe i kēia ʻano kaila like ʻole, ʻo kēia keena kīwī ʻākau, ka mea i hana ʻia no ka pēpē ʻana, e hoʻomau mau, ʻike ʻoe i nā mea kālai'āina, ʻike ʻoe, i ko lākou, ma ko lākou kuʻu, makaʻu i ke ʻano o Hāʻawi i kekahi ʻano o nā mea hoʻohiwahiwa, ʻano hōʻaia kaua militaristic.

Ke manaʻo nei nō wau he pū kekahi, a manaʻo wau he ʻelua mau ʻāpana maikaʻi loa i kākau ʻia ma kēia: ʻo Jeremy Shapiro kekahi, i kēia pule wale ma The Boston Review, a ʻo kekahi hoʻi ʻo Emma Ashford, mai Cato Institute , i nā haole ʻoihana ʻē aʻe i kekahi mau pule i hala aku nei, e pili ana i kēia pilikia o kāu, ʻike ʻoe, ka mea i kapa ʻia ʻo ia he blob. Hoʻohālikelike ʻo Ben Rhodes i kēlā huaʻōlelo, akā he ʻōlelo maʻamau ia e ʻōlelo ai, ua ʻike ʻoe, ʻo ka naʻauao maʻamau e pili ana i nā mea ʻAmelika, ʻike ʻoe, he kūlana ikaika honua. A ua manaʻo wau i kēlā mau ʻāpana ʻelua i kahi hana maikaʻi o ka waiho ʻana aku, ua ʻike ʻoe, he ʻano o kēia manaʻo no ka hoʻomohala kūʻokoʻa e hoʻokumu nei i nā hana a me nā uku no nā poʻe e hoʻohuli i kēia manaʻo me ka hoʻopaʻapaʻa ʻole ʻana i ka waihona kumu o ka United. Pono ke hōʻike ʻia nā ʻāina ma ke ao holoʻokoʻa; pono mākou e waiho i nā pūʻali koa i kau ma luna o ka honua holoʻokoʻa, a i ʻole e hāʻule ka honua i nā haunaele.

MH: Aʻo ia ka hoʻopaʻapaʻa bipartisan, ʻoiaʻiʻo.

MD: Pololei kū.

MH: E like me ke War on Terror ʻo bipartisan kekahi. I ka ʻike ʻana i nā helikopter pūʻali koa e hūnā ana i nā mea kūʻē - e like me kā lākou hana ʻana i nā kahua kaua - haʻahaʻa ʻo ia ma luna o nā mea kūʻē ma Wakinekona, DC, e hoʻowalewale a lūlū iā lākou ma nā kauoha o nā luna kiʻekiʻe ma ka Pentagon. ʻAʻole anei ʻoe e hoʻi i ka Kaua ma Terror i ka home, e like me kekahi o kā mākou e hoʻomaopopo nei i ka maʻi maʻamau?

MD: ʻAʻole, manaʻo wau he pololei maoli nō ia. Ke olelo aku nei au, —oia — ua ike no makou i keia mau manawa, ua ike makou i keia mau papahana, a ike oe, ua loaa oe, ua holo makou i ka nui o ka puali koa, mea keia pu a ka puali. hāmeʻa, a laila lawe lākou i ia ma kēia mau keʻena makai, nā keʻena makai e makemake nei ia, makemake lākou e hoʻohana.

Ke ʻike nei mākou i nā mākaʻi i kēia manawa, ke ʻike nei ʻoe, i loko o nā pūʻali koa kaua, e like me kā lākou e mākaʻikaʻi ana i nā alanui o kāu, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo fallujah. Mai ʻōlelo e makemake mākou iā lākou e huakaʻi ana i nā alanui o Fallujah. Akā ʻae, ʻike maoli mākou - ke ʻike nei kēia i ka Kaua ma Terror e hoʻi mai ana i ka home, ʻike mākou i ka, ʻike ʻoe, ka helikopter e hānai ana i nā mea kuee mai [L] Square Lafayette.

A, ʻike ʻoe, e hoʻolohe, ua loaʻa i nā pōpilikia ʻAmelika he mau pilikia no ka lōʻihi loa. ʻO wau ka manaʻo, nā pilikia a mākou e ʻike nei, ʻike ʻoe, nā hōʻike i ke ala o ka pepehi kanaka ʻana o George Floyd, ʻo ia nā pilikia ka hohonu a e hoʻi a ʻike, ʻike ʻoe, i nā makahiki he mau makahiki, inā ʻaʻole i mau kenekulia. Akā ke manaʻo nei au ʻo ke ala a ka Kauaʻi Terror i ʻōlelo ai i kēia, ua hoʻopuka maoli ia i kahi pae hou weliweli loa, a manaʻo wau i kēia mau mea hana a nā mea hoʻohālike -

MH: Ae, oia hoi—

MD: - pono i kahi kālā nui loa no ka hōʻike ʻana i kēia mau pilikia.

MH: A, ʻo ia ke kumu aʻu i makemake ai e hana i ka hōʻike ma kēia ʻatikala i kēia lā, a ua kau ʻoe, no ka mea, ʻaʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke kamaʻilio e pili ana i nā mākaʻi i kahi haki.

MD: ʻAno. Akau.

MH: ʻO ka kihi o ke kaua koa koʻikoʻi ke hoʻomaopopo i kēia.

ʻO kaʻu manaʻo, ua loaʻa iā mākou nā hōʻike o ka pūʻali koa i ka mākaukau i loko o nā hebedoma i mākaukau e kūʻē i ka poʻe kūʻē, ʻaʻole wale me nā bayonets, akā me nā pu ola. Pehea ʻo ia ka moʻolelo nui loa, ke nānā nei au i kahi kūlana hou? ʻAʻole pono paha e makemake i nā mea makemake o Senaker Sanders a me nā poʻe Democrats ma mua o ka ʻaha kūkā? Inā paha e hoʻopau i nā pūʻali koa ʻAmelika i luna o nā kamaʻāina ʻAmelika e loaʻa ana nā mea ola ola?

MD: ʻAʻole, manaʻo wau e pono lākou. Manaʻo wau i koʻu manaʻo, inā makemake mākou e kamaʻilio e pili ana i ke ʻano o ka huli ʻana o Congress i kēia manawa ma ke ʻano o ka mea e pono ai, ʻo wau ke ʻano, e hoʻohui i kēia ma ka papa inoa o nā mea.

MH: ʻAe.

MD: Aka, manaʻo wau i ʻike mākou, i manaʻo wau i ka hoʻihoʻi koʻikoʻi nui i kēia bonkers op-ed i hoʻopuka ʻia e Tom Cotton ma New York Times, i koʻu manaʻo, aia kekahi -

MH: "Hoʻouna e nā Pūʻali."

MD: "Hoʻouna i nā ʻōpio" - he hoʻopaʻapaʻa loa ka manaʻo e pili ana paha lākou e paʻi i ka mea mua. ʻO kaʻu pono ponoʻī ʻo The New York Times ʻaʻole e hāʻawi i kona waiwai i kēlā mau manaʻo; Inā makemake ʻoe e ʻike i ka manaʻo o Tom Cotton, nui nā wahi e hiki ai iā ia ke hele a hoʻopuka i kēlā. ʻAʻole he mea huna.

Akā ke manaʻo nei au i ka pane i kēlā, e hoʻomaopopo i ka mea āna i ʻōlelo ai, e hoʻohana i ka pūʻali koa US e kū'ē ana i nā kamaʻāina ʻAmelika i nā alanui ʻAmelika, ke manaʻo nei wau e mālamalama ʻoe i ke ʻano o kēia kuʻina o kēia kuʻikahi.

MH: Manaʻo wau, he ala kēia e hoʻāʻo ai a loaʻa i nā ʻAmelika, nā ʻAmelika maʻamau, e lawe i ka militarization o nā kulekele ʻē aʻe, nā kaua pau ʻole, ka ʻoihana Pentagon ʻoi aku ka koʻikoʻi, ma ka pili ʻana i ka mea e hana nei i kēia manawa, ma ko lākou alanui?

Matt, ke ninaninau nei au iā Jamaal Bowman i kekahi lā e holo nei no ka ʻaha kūkā kūʻē iā incotent Eliot Engel, ka mea nona ka noho o ke keʻena noho haʻaʻāina o House, ʻike wau ʻo ia i manaʻo ʻia e kou luna ʻaupō, e Senador Sanders, ʻokoʻa kekahi. A ʻo wau a ke kamaʻilio nei e pili ana i ka paʻakikī o ka loaʻa ʻana o nā poʻe koho pānaʻi i lawe i nā pilikia kulekele ʻē aʻe - ʻo nā kaua ʻē aʻe, ʻoiai nui loa. ʻO ka hapa nui o ʻAmelika, ka hoʻomaopopo ʻana, e kau pono ʻia ana i nā hopohopo home. Pehea ʻoe e hana koʻikoʻi ai iā lākou?

MD: [Laughs.] Kēia ʻoe, e like me ka mea nāna i hana ma ke ʻano haole ma mua he ʻumi kaukani, ʻo ia kēlā mea he paʻakikī.

A maopopo iaʻu. ʻO ka ʻoiaʻiʻo, ʻo ka hapanui o nā kānaka - e hopohopo nei lākou i nā pilikia i pili koke iā lākou. He kūpono kūpono kēlā. No laila, ʻae, e ʻike ana i nā ala e kamaʻilio ai e pili ana i nā kulekele haole ma kahi ala e kū maoli ana ai, ʻike ʻoe, ka poʻe ma hea lākou, ʻike ʻoe, he mea nui loa. Akā i ka manawa like, eia wau e ʻae pū me ʻoe e hoʻāʻo mākou e hoʻohana i kēia manawa a hoʻomaopopo i ke ʻano o kēia manawa o ko mākou Kauaʻi Terror i hele mai iā mākou i ko mākou mau alanui, ʻaʻole hoʻi mākou makemake e haʻalele i ka ʻaoʻao o ʻoe ʻike, ka pilikia hohonu loa e pili ana i ka nui o ka ke keʻokeʻo a me ka hoʻonāukiuki e hōʻike ʻia ana, a ʻike ʻoe, ka mea o ka hoʻokau ʻana i kēia hana ʻino.

MH: ʻAʻole anei ʻo ka pilikia, ka ironika, no ka nui o nā poʻe koho balota ke aupuni he mea ʻē a ʻaʻole koke koke, e like me kāu e ʻōlelo ai; no nā poʻe kālai'āina i koho nui ʻia, ʻoiai, ua ʻike nui ʻia nā kulekele ʻē aʻe a me nā mea pale aku ma o ka moho kūwaho, ma ke ʻano he, ʻike nō paha ʻoe, nā hana, nā kuikua pale, nā manaʻo hopohopo i ko lākou home home?

ʻO kāu kāpena hoʻi, ʻo Bernie Sanders, ʻaʻole ia e pale ʻia mai kēlā. Ua ʻāhewa ʻia ʻo ia e kekahi ma ka Left no ke kākoʻo ʻana i nā makahiki, i ua ʻoihana ʻoihana kaua ma Vermont no ka hana. Kākoʻo ʻo ia i ka mālama ʻana i ka hoʻopiʻi kūʻē ʻo Lockheed Martin ʻo F-35 Fighter Jets, koʻu manaʻo, he ʻoi aku ka nui o $ 1 trilyion, a ua hoʻokipa ʻia kekahi mau o lākou ma Vermont, a ua hoʻopiʻi ʻia e nā lefties ma Vermont no kēlā.

ʻO ia ka pilikia no ka ʻohana, ʻaʻole? No kahi koho politika koho e makemake ana e kue i ka ʻoihana Pentagon, akā e kū pū pū kekahi me nā hana a me nā hopohopo waiwai i ko lākou home home?

MD: ʻĀ, ke manaʻo nei au ke ala ke ʻike iā mākou, ʻike ʻoe, ua ʻōlelo ʻo ia i kēia a ua manaʻo wau i ke ʻano o ka noʻonoʻo ʻana e like me kēia: Hoʻolohe, pono mākou i ka pale. He mea nui nā hana, akā ʻo ia - ʻaʻole kēlā ka moʻolelo nui. ʻO wau ke manaʻo, aia kekahi, ʻo ke kumukūʻai e pili ana i nā mea mua.

No laila e pono ai mākou i ka pale? Hiki iā mākou ke mālama i ko mākou poʻe me ka liʻiliʻi aʻe i ko mākou kālā i kēia manawa? ʻOiaʻiʻo, hiki iā mākou. ʻAʻole pono mākou e hoʻolauna ma mua o nā ʻāina he 11 a he 12 paha i hui pū ʻia i ka honua, ʻo ka hapa nui i lilo i mau hoa kaua, i mea e pale ai i ka palekana a me ka pōmaikaʻi o nā lāhui kanakaʻAmelika.

MH: ʻAe.

MD: No laila ke manaʻo nei wau he nīnau ia no ka mea o nā mea mua a mākou e hoʻonohonoho nei, he aha kā mākou mau pahuhopu maoli no ka hoʻohana ʻana i ka pūʻali koa, a ke kumu paha mākou i ko lākou ma mua o ka ʻoihana? A manaʻoʻiʻo ʻo Senatoa Sanders ua paʻa mākou.

MH: Aia ʻo ia. A ua maopopo loa ia oia i kela, aka, he nui no ka hakaka ana o ka F-35 Fighter Jet he kumu hoohalike piha o ka make ana o ka Pentagon.

Ua hōʻike nui loa ia i ka hopena kālā. Ua ʻōlelo ʻoe ma ke lilo ʻana o nā ʻoi aʻe ma mua o 10, 11, 12 mau ʻāina. ʻO wau ʻo wau, ka hoʻonui ʻana o ka hoʻolilo ma 2018, no ka laʻana, ka hoʻonui ʻana iā ia iho, manaʻo wau, ua ʻoi aku ka nui o ka waihona kālā pale o ka Russia - ʻoi loa ka nui.

MD: Akau. Akau.

MH: No laila no ke aha e ʻole hou ai nā Democrats, Mat, no ke aha lā lākou e koho ʻole ai i kēia mau ulu pinepine, kūwaha, ʻaʻole pono e piʻi i ka waihona ʻoihana pale? No ke aha lākou nei, no ke aha ka hapa nui o lākou e launa pū ai me ia?

MD: ʻĀ, ke manaʻo nei au no kekahi mau kumu i ʻike ai, ua kamaʻilio mākou ma mua, manaʻo wau he hopohopo e pili ana i ka pena ʻia me ka palupalu i ka pale ʻana. He ʻano nui o ka keʻena echo ma laila e noho pono ana nā mea kālai'āina i kēlā me kēia memo, inā - inā i ʻike ʻia ʻole lākou e kākoʻo ana i nā makemake, ʻike ʻoe, nā mea ʻikena pale pale a i ka pūʻali koa paha.

A eia hou, aia kekahi mau pilikia kūpono, ʻoiaʻiʻo no ka pili ʻana i nā hana, me ka maopopo, ʻike ʻoe, ua mālama pono ʻia nā pūʻali koa Amerika. Akā ʻae, ʻo wau ʻo ka, ua - he a paʻakikī. He mea kekahi Senador Sanders i ka wā lōʻihi, e kani ana i ke alapine no kēia a me ka hoʻāʻo ʻana e hōʻuluʻulu hou aku i poʻe hou e ʻano o ke koho kūʻē ʻana i kēia kālā kūleʻa nui a ulu ulu. Aka ua manaʻo ʻo ia e nānā hou aku nei kekahi poʻe i kēia manawa.

MH: He mea kupaianaha kēia ʻike i nā Democrats, ma kekahi ʻaoʻao, ʻo lambast Trump me ka mea kākau, ma ke ʻano he mana hoʻomalu ma ke kali ʻana, e like me ka poʻe e cahoots me Putin, a hāʻawi iā ia i nā kālā hou aʻe no ka pūʻali koa, ʻoi aku ka nui o ke kālā e hoʻomaka. kaua hou. He ʻano ʻēheu wale ka ʻike i ka mea e hiki mai ana, i kēlā ʻanoʻike cognitive dissonance.

Aia wale ma ka moʻohelu kālā, he aha kahi helu maikaʻi no ka hoʻolālā pale o ka US. I kēia manawa, ʻoiai mākou e kūkākūkā ai, nui ia, ʻoi aku ka nui o nā aupuni o ka 10 e hiki pū mai ana. Ma kahi kokoke he 40 pakeneka o ka hoʻolilo ʻana o ka pale ʻāina. He aha kahi kūlana kūpono aʻe? No ka mea, e like me kāu e ʻōlelo nei, ʻaʻole senifist ʻo Senatoa Sanders. Ua manaʻoʻiʻo ʻo ia i ka pale kaua, manaʻoʻiʻo ʻo ia i kahi pūʻali koa. He aha ka nui o ka pūʻali koa ikaika o US, i kou ʻike, i kona nānā?

MD: Maʻaneʻi, i kēia manawa ke hana nei ʻo ia no ka hoʻoponopono no ka National Defense Authorization Act, ʻo ia ka mea i ka wā e kūkākūkā ʻia ai i kēia manawa i kahi hoʻoponopono e ʻoki ʻia, e hoʻomaka ai, ʻo ka ʻoihana pale ma ka 10 pakeneka.

No laila, e pili ana paha i kahi $ 75 billion mai loko mai o ka, ʻike ʻoe, $ 700 biliona, a pēlā paha, he $ 78 biliona, o kahi kālā $ 780 biliona, he nui loa. Akā ma ke ʻano e hoʻomaka ai e ʻōlelo, e lawe mākou i ka 10 pākēneka, a laila e hoʻohoka mākou i kēlā, e hana mākou i kahi papahana hāʻawi no ke kākoʻo no ka hoʻonaʻauao, no nā hana, no ka hale, ma nā kaiāulu. i - ua loaʻa ka hapa nui o ka poʻe e noho nele ana. A he hoʻomaka kēia, akā kekahi ala nō hoʻi ʻo ia ka mea e pono ai mākou e hana i mua. ʻO ia nā ʻohana e pono ai i kēia kālā.

MH: ʻOli, hauʻoli wau ke hana nei ia i kēlā. A ke manaolana nei mākou i hana i kahi ala āpau.

No laila ua maikaʻi ʻo ia i ka lawe ʻana i nā kālā hōʻaiʻē, akā ʻo Bernie me ka makemake ʻole i ka hoʻonāukiuki ʻana i nā mākaʻi. Ua puka mai ʻo ia me ka ikaika e kūʻē i ka hana kaua e hoʻopau i ka mākaʻi. A ʻoiai ua haʻi ʻia ʻo ia ma The New Yorker i kēia manawa, ʻae, makemake ʻo ia e, "hoʻohiolo i nā hana a nā ʻoihana mākaʻi", he mea maikaʻi ʻole ʻia, ʻaʻole makemake ʻo ia e hoʻemi i nā kumukūʻai mākaʻi ma kekahi ʻano kūpono.

MD: ʻAe, ke manaʻo nei au ʻo ke ala āna e hele aku ai i kēia, ke ʻōlelo pono mākou e hoʻihoʻi hou i ka hana a nā mākaʻi i ko mākou kaiāulu. ʻOiaʻiʻo nō kā ia i kākoʻo nui i nā hōʻikeʻike; ʻike ʻo ia ua hana nui kēia mau mea hana a me nā mea hoʻohālike ma ke alanui i ka paipai ʻana i ka nānā ʻana o ka ʻāina i ka pilikia nui loa, koʻikoʻi o ka lawena a ka lawena a me ka hoʻokaumaha keʻokeʻo a ke ʻano mau nei ko mākou ʻāina.

No laila waiho ʻo ia i kahi ʻano o nā ʻōmole e hoʻololi i ke ʻano o ko mākou mākaʻi ma ko lākou kaiāulu: ʻoi aku ka nui o nā koa lehulehu, ʻike ʻoe, ʻike a me ka hoʻokipa ʻana i nā kaiāulu a me ka pale ʻana, ʻoiaʻiʻo nā mākaʻi i hōʻike ʻia ka pilikia maoli me ka hōʻino. . ^ E Ha yM. No laila ʻaʻole ʻo ia i hopu i ka pahuhopu nui e pale aku ai i nā mākaʻi, manaʻo wau ua kau ʻo ia, ua kāpae ʻo ia i kekahi o nā manaʻo nui loa a koa hoʻi e pili ana i ka hana a nā mākaʻi i ka hana a nā mākaʻi.

MH: Ua ʻōlelo ʻoe i nā alakaʻi. He mau mahina mākou i hala mai kahi koho pelekikena kaulana. ʻO ka mea koho Demokrat i koho ʻia e Bernie Sanders, kā ʻo Bernie Sanders i kapa aku i kāna hoa aloha, ʻo Joe Biden, kekahi o nā Demokala Demokratika maikaʻi loa a me ka lōʻihi. Ua kamaʻilio ʻoe i ka blob ma mua; Manaʻo wau he kāleka kā Joe Biden i lawe i ka lālā o ka blob. Ke manaʻo nei paha ʻoe e ʻike mākou i kekahi loli ʻana mai kahi Pelekikena Biden, i ka wā e hele mai ai i ka pūʻali koa militere, ʻo Pentagon-ʻoihana ʻē aʻe i ka wā e hiki mai ana i ke alo o ka pūʻali koa US e ʻāʻea ana i ka honua?

MD: ʻĀ, ke manaʻo nei ua ʻike mākou i kekahi neʻe ʻana mai Biden.

Ke kulana nei au, e mua ma mua, e like me kāu e ʻōlelo nei, ʻae. ʻO wau ʻo Biden, ʻike ʻoe, ʻike mākou i kona ʻike i ke kulekele ʻē aʻe e hoʻi mai i nā makahiki he mau makahiki. Ua kākoʻo ʻo ia i ka Kaua Iraq; Ua hōʻāhewa ʻia ʻo Senatoa Sanders i kēlā. Ke manaʻo nei au, he mea pono ia e ʻike ʻia i kekahi manawa, ʻoiai i ka wā o ka noho aliʻi ʻana o Obama, kahi leo nui ʻo Biden, inā mākou e kamaʻilio nei e pili ana i ka hoʻokūkū o Afghanistan i ka wā mua o ka pelekikena o Obama, ka hui kūʻē o Libya - ka mea huli aʻela i kahi hana hoʻololi e hoʻoponopono ai i ke aupuni, nāna i hana i kahi pōʻino nui ma Libya, e ʻāʻama ana i kēia ʻāina.

No laila, manaʻo wau - hoʻolohe, ʻaʻole wau - ʻaʻole wau e hoʻoheʻe kālā. Manaʻo wau he ʻoi aku ʻo Biden ma mua o ka nui o nā holomua i makemake e ʻike. Akā ʻo ia kekahi mea aʻu e manaʻo nei ua komo pū i kēia kūkākūkā e pili ana i ka pāʻina, a ākea ākea, i ka'āina. Ua hōʻailona pū kāna hui a me nā lehulehu a lākou e makemake nei e kamaʻilio i nā leo holomua ma nā kulekele ʻē aʻe. A no laila, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo Senatoa Sanders -

MH: Ua hōʻea lākou i ou?

MD: Ua ʻōlelo māua, ʻae. Ke kamaʻilio pinepine nei mākou iā mākou. A ua mahalo wau i.

Eia hou, makemake wau e ʻike i kekahi neʻe hou aku i kekahi o kēia mau kulekele. Manaʻo wau e pono mākou e ʻike i kahi i neʻe ai ʻo Biden. Ke manaʻo nei wau, no ka laʻana, ʻo ka hana paʻa i ka ʻāpana o Biden - a ma ka ʻaoʻao o nā moho Demokalaka holoʻokoʻa, ma ke ala - e hui hou i ka ʻaelike Nīlarika Iran a ʻike i ka ʻikena lahilahi me Iran me ke ʻano o ka hoʻomau ʻana i nā ʻāʻī ma ka ʻāina, akā, e hana ana i nā mea a Trump e hana nei, e hoʻihoʻi ana i nā Saudis i ka puʻe i kēia kūloko hui kūʻē kūʻē iā Iran. Manaʻo wau e pono mākou e hoʻomaopopo e like me ka maikaʻi. Akā pono kākou e hoʻomau i ka hana a hoʻomau i ka pana.

MH: Loaʻa paha kahi hoʻololi mai Biden ma Saudi Arabia. Manaʻo wau ua kapa ʻo ia iā ia he pariah i kekahi o nā hoʻopaʻapaʻa.

MD: Akau. Akau.

MH: A ua nui ka poʻe Democrats ma Saudi Arabia. A manaʻo wau e like me ka poʻe like ʻo Bernie Sanders, kāu kāpena, a me Chris Murphy, ke senator mai Connecticut, i hana nui i ka neʻe ʻana o nā Demokrat i koho ʻia ma Saudi Arabia - kahi mamao aku o Saudi Arabia - kahi mea maikaʻi.

ʻ sayslelo aku ʻo Biden ma kāna pūnaewele hoʻolaha i ka "pau mau kaua", a ke kamaʻilio nei nō ʻo ia e pili ana i ka lawe ʻana mai i ka hapa nui o nā pūʻali koa, he mau mea maikaʻi i koʻu manaʻo. Akā ua ʻōlelo pū ʻo ia ma kāna pūnaewele: “He mākia ikaika loa mākou ma ka honua - a ma ke ʻano he pelekikena, ʻo ia hoʻi ʻo Biden e hoʻomau ʻo ia. E hoʻolako ka hoʻokele Biden i nā hoʻopukapuka e pono ai no ka hoʻokolohua ʻana i ko mākou pūʻali no nā pilikia o ka makahiki e hiki mai ana, ʻaʻole i ka mea hope loa. "

ʻAʻole paha like paha ʻo ia ka Pelekikena Biden e hana maoli nei i kekahi mea e pili ana i kēia pelekikena pale pale US? E like me kāu i ʻōlelo ai, ua kāhea ʻo Bernie Sanders no kahi hōʻoki hapa 10 pakeneka, ʻoI nō ke ʻano o ka mea a Biden ma hope iho? ʻIke wau i ka paʻakikī e manaʻoʻiʻo.

MD: ʻAe, ʻaʻole wau i ʻike. Akā ke manaʻo nei wau ʻo ka pane wale nō ka hoʻomau ʻana i ka paʻi ʻana iā lākou - ke kamaʻilio ʻana iā lākou, e hāʻawi ana i nā manaʻo no kēia mea. Eia hou kekahi, i ka wā e kamaʻilio ai ʻo Biden e pili ana i nā luʻi o ka kenekulia 21, ʻo ia ka hoʻopaʻapaʻa e pono ai mākou e komo i loko o ia mau pilikia a he aha ka mea e koi ai ʻo ʻAmelika e kōkua i ka holomua o ka maluhia a me ka pōmaikaʻi o ka lahui ʻAmelika a ʻo ka neʻe ʻana o kākou i kēia manawa hou?

ʻO koʻu manaʻo, aia i kekahi manawa, manaʻo wau e paipai maoli kēia. ʻO wau ke, no ka manawa mua i koʻu ola, ke manaʻo nei wau, ka ikaika loa - ka hapa nui loa o ka ikehu a mākou e ʻike nei i nā nīnau e pili ana i nā kulekele haole ʻAmelika, a me nā palekana aupuni ʻAmelika, e hele mai ia mai Le Left.

Ke ʻike nei mākou i kahi ʻano o nā hui a me nā leo e kūʻē mai i kekahi o kēia neʻe, a e ʻōlelo ana: E hoʻolohe, pono mākou e ʻike hou i ke ʻano o kā mākou nānā ʻana e noho ana i ka palekana ponoʻī, a ke manaʻo nei nō ua hoʻomākaʻi ʻia ka maʻi maʻi i loko o kahi ʻoiaiʻo ka mea nui, e like me kaʻu i ʻōlelo ai, e hōʻike i nā mea āpau a, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo nā haneli miliona mau kālā o mākou i kau ai i kēia mau mea, ʻo ia mau mea kaua, ʻaʻole mālama i ka poʻe ʻAmelika mai kēia huakaʻi. A e koi ana i ka ʻoluʻolu hou ʻana o ke ʻano o kā mākou mea i palekana.

MH: No laila, ma kēlā palapala, Mat, nīnau hope. Aia kekahi ʻōpuni International Wahine Wāwahine no ka Maluhia a me ke Kalikimaka, kahi hoʻi i ke kaua Cold War i ka lā ma mua o ka hala o ka viral, ma mua o nā meme, akā, he mea kaulana loa ia.

A heluhelu a heluhelu au, "he lā nui loa kēia i ka wā e loaʻa ai kā kā mākou mau kula i nā kālā a pau a lākou e makemake ai a loaʻa i ka lewa ke kūʻai i kahi kūwā e kūʻai mai i ke kīwī."

MD: [Laughs.] ʻAe.

MH: ʻAno kokoke mākou i kēlā lā? Kuhi ʻoe - manaʻo paha ʻoe e ʻike i kēlā lā i kēia wā o ko mākou ola ʻana?

MD: ʻAʻole paha he kūʻai kūʻai pāʻai, ʻoiai e makemake wau e ʻike i kekahi o kā lākou e hana ai. Nani paha he mea ʻoluʻolu loa.

MH: [ʻAkaʻaka.]

MD: Akā ʻaʻole, akā manaʻo wau ka mea maʻamau - he mea nui loa ka sentiment ākea. He ʻoluʻolu, e kamaʻilio e pili ana i nā mea e hana i mua: He waiwai nui kā mākou i ke aʻo ʻana i nā keiki? Mākou e waiwai i ka mālama ola, hale, ma nā hana? Ke hana nei mākou i ka manaʻo ʻole o nā poʻeʻAmelika i ka panakō i ka wā, i ka wā e hopohopo ai lākou, ʻike ʻoe, ke ʻano maʻi e hiki ʻole mai ke nānā mai e like me ke kanesa a me nā mea like ʻole?

Eia hou, he ʻōlelo koʻikoʻi koʻikoʻi kēia iā mākou i kēia manawa e pili ana i ka mea o kā mākou mea maoli o ka mua? Ke mālama nei mākou i ko mākou poʻe ponoʻī, e like me kā mākou ʻike i nā hopohopo maoli e pili ana i ka palekana?

MH: Matt, pono mākou e haʻalele iā ia ma laila. Mahalo nui loa no ke komo ʻana iaʻu ma Deconstructed.

MD: Maikaʻi ma ʻaneʻi. Mahalo, Mehdi.

MH: ʻO ia ʻo Matt Duss, ka loea ʻōlelo aʻoaʻo ma ka ʻāina ʻē a Bernie Sanders, ke kamaʻilio e pili ana i ka kālā Pentagon a me ka pono e hōʻoki i nā kaua mau ʻole a me ke kālā no kēlā mau kaua ʻole. A ʻike, inā ʻoe e kākoʻo i ka hōʻole ʻana i nā mākaʻi, pono maoli ʻoe e kākoʻo kūleʻa i ka pūʻali koa. Holo ka lua i ka lima.

[Hoʻokomo Musical.]

MH: ʻO kā mākou hōʻike! ʻO Deconstructed kahi hana o First Look Media a me ka The Intercept. ʻO kā mākou mea hana mea ʻo Zach Young. Ua hui ʻia ke hōʻike e Bryan Pugh. ʻO kā mākou mele mele i haku ʻia e Bart Warshaw. ʻO Betsy Reed ka mea hoʻoponopono o Intercept i luna.

A ʻo wau ʻo Mehdi Hasan. Hiki iā ʻoe ke hahai iaʻu ma Twitter @mehdirhasan. Inā ʻaʻole ʻoe i ʻoluʻolu, e ʻoluʻolu ʻoe i ka inoa o ka hōʻike no ʻoe e lohe ai i kēlā me kēia pule. E hele i kainterinter.com/deconstructed e kākau inoa mai kāu podcast platform o ke koho: iPhone, Android, kēlā me kēia mea. Inā ʻoe i inoa inoa, e ʻoluʻolu e waiho iā mākou i kahi loiloi a i ʻole hoʻi i ka loiloi - kōkua ana i nā poʻe e loaʻa ke hōʻike. A inā makemake ʻoe e hāʻawi iā mākou i nā leka uila, e leka uila iā mākou ma Podcasts@theintercept.com. Mahalo nui loa!

E ʻike iā ʻoe i kahi pule aʻe.