by ʻO ka Democracy Nei,'Aukake 19, 2021
Ka Palapala Palapala
AMY GOODMAN: ʻo kēia ʻO ka Democracy Nei!, democracynow.org, ʻO ke kaua a me ka'ōlelo hoʻomalu. ʻO wau ʻo Amy Goodman.
Ke hoʻomau nei mākou e nānā iā Afghanistan, hui pū ʻia mākou e Matthew Hoh, kahi luna o ka moku kai mua a me ka mokuʻāina. I ka 2009, ua lilo ʻo ia i luna mua US i ʻike ʻia e haʻalele i ke kūʻē no ke kaua Afghanistan. I ka manawa o kona haʻalele ʻana, e lawelawe ana ʻo ia ma ke ʻano he kūloko nui ma ka moku ʻo Zabul ma ka palena ʻo Pakistan. Ma kāna leka haʻalele, ua kākau ʻo Matthew Hoh, “Ua lilo ka ʻike a me ka hilinaʻi ʻole i nā kumumanaʻo o ka noho ʻana o ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa ma Afghanistan. He kanalua koʻu a me nā hoʻokele e pili ana i kā mākou papahana o kēia manawa a hoʻolālā i ka hoʻolālā e hiki mai ana, akā ʻaʻole kau ʻia kaʻu haʻalele ʻana i ka pehea a mākou e alualu nei i kēia kaua, akā no ke aha a i ka hopena hea. " He hoa ʻo Matthew Hoh i kēia manawa ma ka Center for International Policy.
Matthew, hoʻokipa hou mai i ʻO ka Democracy Nei! Hiki iā ʻoe ke pane wale i ka mea i hana ʻia ma Afghanistan, akā ʻo ka hoʻolaha ʻana o ka media ʻo US no kēia a ʻo wai ka mea e hoʻolālā nei i ka moʻolelo?
MATUA HOH: Mahalo no kou hoʻi ʻana iaʻu, e Amy.
ʻO wau e, ʻo ia nō - Manaʻo wau ʻo ka mea i ʻoi aku ka pōʻino ma mua o ka mea i hana ʻia i ka poʻe Afghanistan ʻo ia i loko o kekahi mau lā e poina hou ʻo ʻAmelika iā ʻAmelika. No laila, i kēia manawa ke ʻike nei mākou i kahi nui o ka uhi ʻana. ʻO ka hapa nui o ia ka lipolipo maoli, maʻalahi loa, pili me nā moʻolelo o ke kaua, ʻaʻole e nānā i nā hōʻike. ʻO wau e ʻōlelo nei, i kēia manawa ka moʻolelo e kū nei i hāʻule ʻo Afghanistan no ka mea ua huki ʻo Joe Biden i nā pūʻali 2,500 mai kahi ʻāina ka nui o Texas. Ua like ia me ka hohonu a, ʻike ʻoe, e noʻonoʻo nei e hele nei i loko o kēia kamaʻilio ʻana ma ka hapanui o nā pāpāho nui ʻAmelika.
ʻO kēia kaua - a i ʻole, i kēia hopena - a ʻaʻole pono wau e ʻōlelo "pau," no ka mea aia ʻo Afghanistan ma kahi weliweli loa i kēia manawa. ʻO kēia paha ka hoʻomaka o, ʻike ʻoe, he aha ka maluhia hoʻomāinoino, kahi maluhia kūpono ʻole, akā he manawa kūpono paha no nā poʻe Afghans e kūkulu hou a hui hou, inā mālama ʻia ka hana ʻino i kahi liʻiliʻi. A i ʻole ia he wā hou aʻe paha i loko o kēia kaua kīwila e hoʻi nei i nā makahiki 1970, no ka mea he mea āu, he mau koa warlords ʻoe, a ʻo ka hapa nui o nā warlords i hui pū me nā Taliban i nā pule i hala aku nei a i ʻole nā mahina - akā naʻe, nui a nā luna kaua i hana ʻole - a me nā kāne i ke aupuni e like me Amrullah Saleh, ʻo ia ka pelekikena hope o Ashraf Ghani, e hōʻike nei i kēia manawa ʻo ia ka pelekikena kūpono o Afghanistan, me nā luna koa e like me Mohammad Atta Noor, Abdul Rashid Dostum, i mahuka mai ka ʻāina ʻO kēia mau kāne ʻaʻole e hāʻawi maʻalahi. He mau kāne kēia e makemake nei e hoʻihoʻi i ka mea a lākou e manaʻoʻiʻo ai. A ʻo kēia mau kāne he mau moʻolelo lōʻihi me ko ʻAmelika CIA. A ma laila e moe ai ka pili pono o CIA.
No laila, aia mākou ma kahi ala ma aneʻi kahi e loaʻa ai kahi ala, no kēia maluhia hoʻomāinoino a kūpono ʻole hoʻi, i ke kūkulu hou ʻana i kahi launa, a i ʻole ʻo kēia ka pae mua i ka ʻāpana hou o kēia kaua kīwila e hoʻomau nei, no ka mea hiki i nā ʻAmelika ke hiki e nānā i kēia a ʻōlelo aku, "E nānā, ʻo kēia ke ʻano o ka nānā ʻana o Afghanistan i ka lā 10 Kepakemapa 2001. Aia kekahi mau mea kaua i holed i kekahi mau panalāʻau. Mālama ka Taliban i ka hapa nui o ka ʻāina. " A hiki iaʻu ke hōʻoia iā ʻoe aia kekahi poʻe ma Wakinekona, DC, i kēia manawa e ʻōlelo nei, “Ua hana mākou ia i ka makahiki 2001. Hiki iā mākou ke hana hou. A i kēia manawa e hana ʻoi aku kāua i ka maikaʻi. ” A no laila, he kūlana weliweli loa ia i loko, manaʻo wau, i kēia manawa no ka poʻe Afghans, no nā kumu he nui.
Eia nō naʻe, e pili ana i ka pāpāho, ʻike ʻoe - ʻike ʻoe, i ka maʻalahi, ʻike ʻoe i ka poʻe like i hewa i kēia kaua i hoʻoili pinepine ʻia. Maʻalahi ka manaʻo hoʻopuka. Hilinaʻi ia i nā moʻolelo. He mau haʻi'ōlelo kāu e haʻi nei i nā mea e pili ana i ke kaua, e pili ana i ka pehea o Afghanistan, ma mua o ka haʻalele ʻana o Joe Biden, i kahi wā kūpaʻa, pehea ka holomua , akā ʻaʻole kēlā.
A manaʻo wau ʻo ia ke kumu i hiki ai iā Joe Biden ke hele aku e kamaʻilio me ka lehulehu o ʻAmelika i ka Pōʻakahi e pili ana i kahi kaua i luku ʻia he mau miliona o ke ola, ka nui o ka ʻeha, a hiki iā Joe Biden ke wehe i kāna mau ʻōlelo ma ka wahaheʻe ʻana e pili ana i kāna kūʻē ʻana i ka piʻi ʻana i ka makahiki 2009, ka mea āna i kūʻē ʻole ai - ʻike ʻoe, ma ke ʻano nui, makemake wale ʻo ia e hoʻouna i nā pūʻali koa liʻiliʻi ma mua o kā Pelekikena Pelekikena Obama, 10,000 i emi iho ma waho o 100,000; ʻo ia kā Joe Biden kūʻē ʻana i ke kaua ma 2009: e hoʻouna i 90,000 ma mua o 100,000 - a ʻo ia nō hoʻi, kāna wahaheʻe e pili ana i ka hana ʻole ʻana o ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa i ke kūkulu aupuni ʻana. Aia kahi nohona media ma aneʻi kahi i ʻike ai ʻo Joe Biden a me kona poʻe hiki iā ia ke wehe wale i kēlā mau ʻōlelo me kēlā mau wahaheʻe, a e ʻae wale ʻia ia.
AMY GOODMAN: E hele kāua - e hoʻi kāua i ka ʻōlelo a Pelekikena Biden i ka Pōʻakahi, i kona wā i hele mai ai mai Camp David ʻoiai ʻo ia e hoʻohewa nui ʻia nei no ka haunaele ma Kabul a me nā mea i hana ʻia ma Afghanistan. ʻO kēia kāna ʻōlelo e pili ana i ka nuʻukia US ma Afghanistan.
PRESIDENT ʻO Joe ʻO BIDEN: Ua hoʻopaʻapaʻa wau no nā makahiki he nui e pili pono ana kā mākou mikiona i ka counterterrorism, ʻaʻole i ka counterinsurgency a i ʻole ke kūkulu aupuni ʻana. ʻO ia ke kumu i kūʻē ai i ka piʻi ʻana i ke noi ʻia i ka makahiki 2009, i koʻu wā i pelekikena hope.
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO Matthew Hoh?
MATUA HOH: ʻĀ, manaʻo wau he nui nā mea e hemo ai ma aneʻi. Ke hoʻi nei i ka pāpāho, aia kahi moʻolelo ʻaʻole i hoʻāʻo nui ka US. ʻO ka hopena - no laila, i ka manawa i hele ai ʻo Barack Obama i ke keʻena i ka makahiki 2009, aia he 30,000 mau pūʻali koa US ma Afghanistan a me kahi helu like o NATO nā pūʻali koa a me nā mea hana. I loko o hoʻokahi makahiki a me ka hapa, aia he 100,000 mau pūʻali koa ʻAmelika, 40,000 NATO nā pūʻali koa a ma luna o 100,000 aelike. A no laila he pūʻali koa miliona miliona ko ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa ma Afghanistan. A ke kūʻē hou nei ʻo Joe Biden i kēlā mea he 10,000 mau pūʻali koa i hōʻemi ʻia. No laila, ʻo ko Joe Biden kūʻē e like me 240,000 pūʻali koa a me nā mea ʻaelike ma Afghanistan ke kūʻē i ka 250,000.
ʻO nā ʻōlelo e pili ana i ka lilo ʻana o kahi hana aupuni - aia wau ma kahi ʻāpana i kapa ʻia he kime kūkulu hou panalāʻau. ʻO kaʻu e ʻōlelo nei, ka wahaheʻe - e ʻōlelo ana i ka miliona o nā kāne a me nā wahine i lawelawe ma Afghanistan, i hele ma laila, i komo i kēia hana kūkulu aupuni - a ua ʻike lākou ua komo lākou i kahi hana kūkulu aupuni - a laila ʻo ka pelekikena o ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa e wahaheʻe maʻalahi e pili ana i ka pili ʻole o ke kūkulu lāhui, manaʻo wau ʻo ia kekahi o nā wehewehe maikaʻi loa no kēia kaua, no kēia mau kaua a pau i ka honua Muslim, ʻo kēia wale nō ka maʻalahi o wahaheʻe e kū ana.
A ʻo ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa - ke kolu o ka helu e pili ana i kēia, ua hoʻāʻo ʻo ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa i ka counterterrorism. ʻO ke kumumanaʻo counterterrorism a Joe Biden e ʻōlelo nei, ʻo ia ka papahana a General Petraeus i hoʻohana ai ma hope o ka haʻalele ʻana o General McChrystal a i ka manawa i hoʻololi ai ʻo United States mai ka counterinsurgency a counterterrorism. A he aha ka manaʻo o kēlā? ʻO ke kumu o ka hoʻopahū ʻana i nā kauhale a hana i nā hoʻouka kaua ʻana i ka pō, e hoʻouna ana i nā commandos 20 mau manawa i ka pō i nā kauhale Afghanistan e kīkē i nā puka a pepehi kanaka. A ua ʻike ʻoe i nā hopena o kēlā. ʻO nā hopena o kēlā, i kēlā me kēia makahiki, ua ikaika ka Taliban. I kēlā me kēia makahiki, ua loaʻa ka kākoʻo o ka Taliban.
A hele mai kēia i ka lapuwale holoʻokoʻa o ka United States i hana ai ma laila. No nā makahiki he nui, ua hāʻawi aku ʻo ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa i nā kānaka ʻelua i nā koho ʻelua: Hiki iā ʻoe ke kākoʻo i ka Taliban a i ʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke kākoʻo i kēia aupuni i haku ʻia me nā haku kaua a me nā haku lāʻau, he mea hewa ia, ʻaʻohe demokratika - holoholona ʻaihue. A ua hoʻohana ʻo ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa i kahi hoʻolālā hoʻokaʻawale-a-lanakila e hoʻāʻo a hoʻokō i kāna mau pahuhopu i Afghanistan, e like me ia i Iraq me ka hoʻokūkū ʻana i ka Shias me ka Sunnis. A no laila, he aha kāu i loaʻa iā ʻoe - ʻike ʻoe, he aha kāu, hou, kēia koho: koho i ka Taliban a i ʻole kēia aupuni. A ʻo ka mea i hana ʻia i kēia makahiki i hala, ʻo ia ka poʻe Afghans, me nā Pashtuns ʻole - Pashtuns, he plurality o ka ʻāina ʻo Afghanistan, ʻo lākou ka mea i hana nui i ka Taliban, ka mea i hana i nā alakaʻi Taliban, a pēlā aku. ma ka ʻaoʻao hewa o ka ʻAkalakala ʻAmelika hoʻokaʻawale. Akā ʻaʻole wale ʻo Taliban i kākoʻo - e kala mai iaʻu, ʻaʻole wale nā Pashtuns i kākoʻo i ka Taliban, akā ʻo nā Afghans mai nā ʻāpana āpau o ka ʻāina, ua kākoʻo nā lāhui āpau i ka Taliban, no ka mea ʻo ia ka maikaʻi ʻole o kahi koho a ke aupuni ʻApelika i hele ai i ka Afghan. poʻe no kēia mau makahiki he ʻelua i hala.
No laila, ʻo kahi ʻano ʻē aʻe o ka pāpāho ka uhi ʻana o ka hiki ʻole a i ʻole ka makemake ʻole o ka pāpāho ʻAmelika e kamaʻilio e pili ana i ke ʻano o ke aupuni ʻo Afghanistan. Lohe nui mākou i nā pono o nā wahine i kēia manawa - a pono mākou. He mea nui loa ia. He mea nui ia. Akā ehia mau ʻAmelika e ʻike ia, ma lalo o ke aupuni ʻApelika, ʻehā o ka ʻelima - a ʻo ka nui o ʻehā o nā wahine ʻelima o Afghanistan i male ikaika, ʻo ka hapa nui o lākou he wahine wahine male? Ehia mau poʻe ʻAmelika e ʻike ia ma Afghanistan, ma lalo o ke kānāwai o Afghanistan, he kū kānāwai i ke kāne e hōʻino wale i kāna wahine, a i ʻole i nā hale paʻahao aupuni o Afghanistan, ʻaʻole ka hapa nui o nā wahine i loko o nā hale paʻahao ʻo Afghanistan no ka mea ke kākoʻo nei lākou i ka Taliban, akā no ka mea o nā kalaima pono? No laila, ʻae, malia paha ʻo kēia aupuni ʻo Afghanistan, kēia aupuni warlord, ʻaʻole like ke keaka mele i loko o kāna misogyny e like me ka Taliban, e pili ana i ka hoʻokō ʻana a hailuku ʻana i nā wahine i nā kahua pāʻani. A, ʻae, no nā mea he nui - he mau wahine i pōmaikaʻi i nā makahiki he 20 i hala. Akā no ka hapanui o nā wahine ma Afghanistan, ʻaʻole i ʻoi aku ka maikaʻi o ke ola, ʻoiai ʻo kā lākou hopohopo nui, no ʻelua mau makahiki i kēia manawa, ua luku ʻia e kahi pōkā Taliban ma ke alanui a i hoʻokuʻu ʻia paha e kahi pōkā ʻAmelika mai ka lani. A pono wau e ʻōlelo, ʻaʻole iā lākou, akā ko lākou ʻohana, kā lākou poʻe keiki, ko lākou mau hoanoho, a pēlā aku.
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO Matthew Hoh, e kamaʻilio ana no ka mea a mākou e ʻike ʻole ai - a he minuke wale nō kā mākou - Central Intelligence Agency, ka CIA nā pūʻali koa ma Afghanistan. He aha kā mākou e hoʻomaopopo ai? A he aha ka mea i hōʻike ʻia e ka spyware Pegasus?
MATUA HOH: ʻĀ, koʻu hoʻomaopopo ia - a no ka poʻe kamaʻāina ʻole i ka spyware Pegasus, ʻo kēia kahi spyware i hana ʻia na ʻIseraʻela e hacks kelepona, kamaʻilio. Inā ʻoe e nānā i ka mea i hana ʻia ma Mekiko, he nui nā poʻe kālaiʻāina i pepehi ʻia ma Mekiko i loko o ka makahiki i hala i loaʻa i kēia Pegasus spyware ma kā lākou kelepona. A ʻo koʻu hoʻomaopopo he loaʻa Pegasus spyware transcripts i loaʻa e hōʻike collusion i kēia makahiki i hala ma waena o ka CIA, ma waena o ke aupuni Afghanistan a ma waena o nā Taliban.
E nānā, ʻaʻole i loaʻa nā mea i hana ʻia ma Afghanistan i loko o kekahi mau pule. ʻO kēia kahi hana hoʻomāinoino i hoʻolālā ʻia e nā Taliban ma mua o hoʻokahi makahiki. A ua kūleʻa nui nā hopena o kēlā a no ka Taliban. No laila, pono e nīnau ʻia ka nīnau, ʻo ia: No ke aha ka makaʻala ʻole o ka lehulehu ʻAmelika i ka mea i hana ʻia ma Afghanistan? E hoʻihoʻi i kāu manaʻo e pili ana i ka pāpāho.
A i ko mākou hele ʻana i mua, manaʻo wau ʻo ka mea nui e hana ai no nā ʻAmelika e koho i ke ala o ke kākoʻo ʻana i ko Afghans ma o ke kōkua ʻana iā lākou e kūkulu hou a hui hou. E hana i kēlā, pono e wehe ka Emepela ʻAmelika. Inā makemake ka poʻe i nā mea mahuka e haʻalele, pono e wehe ka Emepela ʻAmelika. Pono e hoʻomau i ke kālā, inā makemake ʻoe e noho mau nā ʻoihana e like me TOLOnews i ka lewa. Ua kākoʻo kālā ʻia ʻo TOLOnews e ka poʻe ʻAmelika. Ke kākoʻo kālā nei ʻo ʻAmelika i mau kekeke i kēia manawa. I mea e noho ola ai ka pāpāho ma Afghanistan, pono ke aupuni ʻo US e hoʻomau i ke kākoʻo iā ia. No laila, i kēia manawa, pono e noho ke aupuni ʻAmelika ma Afghanistan no ka pono o ka poʻe Afghanistan. A inā ʻo ka poʻe -
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO Matthew Hoh, e waiho ana mākou iā ia ma laila, no ka mea i kā mākou mahele aʻe, e kamaʻilio mākou e pili ana i nā mea mahuka o Afghanistan, kahi mea i komo i ka noho hou ʻana o nā mea mahuka o ʻAmelika ma ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa. Akā e hoʻi hou mākou iā ʻoe i nā lā e hiki mai ana. ʻO kēia mau ʻike koʻikoʻi āpau āpau a mākou e kiʻi ʻole nei mai ka pāpāho ʻoihana. ʻO Matthew Hoh, ke poʻokela poʻokela me ka Center for International Policy, ke kai mua ma [Iraq] a me ka luna o ka Mokuʻāina Mokuʻāina ma Afghanistan, i haʻalele i ka makahiki 2009, ka luna mua o ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa e kūʻē i ke ākea no ke kūʻē ʻana no ke Kaua ʻApelikana.
Ke piʻi nei, kamaʻilio mākou me kahi hui kuleana pilikino o Texas, NA HUAOLELO, e pili ana i ka hoʻonoho hou ʻana i nā mea mahuka o Afghanistan a me ka pane ʻana i ke kiaʻāina ʻo Republican Texas ʻo Greg Abbott e hoʻāʻo nei no ka coronavirus ʻoiai ua ʻike ʻo ia i ka poʻe malihini no ka hoʻolaha ʻana. Covid-19. Noho me mākou.
